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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tofu562 View Post
    Am I the only one to notice this strange phenomenon? Every now and then I will come across a comment on a video where someone will randomly say something like:

    "Fuck muslims and arabs! Long live (insert name of European country)!"
    "The only thing Europe should fear is the Muslim horde!"
    "No more brother's wars! All of Europe needs to close their borders and unite against foreigners!"

    Or some shit like that. Invariably the comments will have "thumbs ups" or "likes" or whatever.

    Highly disturbing.

    I guess I'm just a spoiled Californian, living in a strange, wondrous land, where it's pretty much okay to be Muslim. Funny, for some reason I thought this was the 21st century. The Middle Ages are over! Everyone knows when you start a crusade, a bunch of Mongols pop up out of nowhere and burn down all your cities, duh! Silly Europe.
    I think you're right. You're analysing a situation you're far removed from as though it werent.

    I'm sure a lot of those comments are dumb or simple trolling, a lot of them are people who feel threatened with reason by the colonisation of their societies by culturally alien or alienating forces.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Critical Hit's Avatar
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    Theres a big difference between European and American muslims. When you hear someone talking about Islam being horrible and bad as an American the first thing that comes to your mind is some bubba redneck tea party goon protesting shariah law in a state with a .5% Muslim population. Those people are idiots, mainly because American Muslims are completely harmless.

    European Muslims are a different story. Most of them come from 3rd world shitholes and thus bring the mentality of 3rd world shitholes with them. They have a sense of entitlement, that the people of Europe should change for them instead of the other way around ("When in Rome, demand the Romans change their ways"). Theyve brought a wave of religious fundamentalism in to a mostly secular region which has at times resulted in violence.

    This isnt defending the Norway shooter types, the protectors of "white culture". But there are legitimate reasons for Europeans to be upset about Muslims. Imagine if a bunch of African Christians, from a nation that still practices witch burning, moved in to your town and started demanding that your school teach creationism and blew up a newspaper because it published a cartoon of Jesus.

    In all likeleyhood this problem will disappear in a few generations as the Arabs become more integrated in to European culture.
    Last edited by Critical Hit; 08-10-2011 at 01:51 AM.
    +10% Crit Chance

  3. #13
    Member Tofu562's Avatar
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    I am also forgetting that the US is able to handle mass immigration in a way that other countries cannot. There is a huge amount of space here, and a powerful industrial economy (or at least there was) that loves employing immigrants. Other countries are simply not equipped to deal with these problems. What would be to me a minor "immigration issue" would be to a European a virtual invasion.

    To me it was a crazy thought, that I could live next door to a friendly Pakistani family right now, yet I would almost fear for their safety someplace else. The thought of that kind of pissed me off, and thus this thread. But, it's never quite that simple, as I have found out.

    So my apologies to you Europeans here. I don't blame Europeans for wanting to distance themselves from immigrants, and I made the mistake of thinking that YouTube Neo-Nazi trollers reflected the views of the average European citizen.

  4. #14
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tofu562 View Post
    I am also forgetting that the US is able to handle mass immigration in a way that other countries cannot.
    Please!

    Australia has one of the largest and one of the most successful immigration programs per capita in the world.

  5. #15
    Member Tofu562's Avatar
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    I dunno... the San Jose flea market gets a little crazy. There are Mexican kids shouting things in Vietnamese.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    Religious people quite generally suck, it's just that there are a lot fewer fanatically devoted christians *even in Sweden* than there are crazy muslims.
    The christian fanatics are of course our village idiots, but I see no need to import village idiots from far away. The ones we have (laestadians, jehova's witnesses, pentecostals etc) are bad enough.
    Thankfully, some of the people who come here abandon religion after having been assimilated into our western culture.
    To say that religious people "generally suck" is really ignorant. There are just simply some religious people who take things way too far.
    Your whole post was pretty offensive, but the part about western culture pretty much threw it over the edge for me. That is some of the most elitist, close-minded crap I have ever heard. You are disregarding thousands of years of culture and saying that "Western Culture" trumps everything else. Ever wonder where a lot of the ideas and inventions western culture is based on originated from?
    Everything you said pretty much put you in the same boat as most of the people you criticized: narrow-minded, intolerant, and arrogant.

  7. #17
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiffany View Post
    To say that religious people "generally suck" is really ignorant. There are just simply some religious people who take things way too far.
    Your whole post was pretty offensive, but the part about western culture pretty much threw it over the edge for me. That is some of the most elitist, close-minded crap I have ever heard. You are disregarding thousands of years of culture and saying that "Western Culture" trumps everything else. Ever wonder where a lot of the ideas and inventions western culture is based on originated from?
    Everything you said pretty much put you in the same boat as most of the people you criticized: narrow-minded, intolerant, and arrogant.

    "A ship does not sail with yesterday's wind" - Louis L'Amour

    Despite how cool it was in the past, and I am fully aware of most things since Alexander, the greatness period until the 12th century with scholars continuing the greek tradition, that laid the foundation of everything that is.
    I am aware of the greatness of Persia, the Sassanids, Mesopotamia, Egypt... Most things, like I said.
    Recently started to go deep in reading about the Ottoman Empire, as well. Since I am learning about the 16th to 18th century right now.
    Without a shadow of a doubt, I can say that we up here used to be filthy barbarians, especially during the time where the church forced people not to wash
    I have a burning interest for history, and I have read *a lot* about most eastern cultures. I can't say i'm well-educated on all the varieties of Indian sub-ethnicities and cultures, but I am getting there, too.

    Seriously, I do not criticize what was.
    I just think that what exists there now isn't all that awesome, and it is effectively ruining european society. The islamic part, that is.
    The good part about early islamic culture, especially in Moorish Spain during the 11th century, was that it was fairly secular.
    Islamic culture, when secular, is actually pretty enjoyable. I mean, just think of the food. That alone is worth a lot.
    However, that is overlooking how bad things are right now.
    Because they really, really suck. Riots, like the one in London, is not at all unheard of. It just doesn't get the same media attention.
    There are *huge* problems with rape, violence and theft among the immigrants who come here from the middle east, especially Iraq, and Somalia.
    These people count in the tens of thousands, officially, and there are even more of them here illegally without papers.
    10% of my country is not populated by swedes or other scandinavians, and those 10% make up 70% of the prison inmates.
    Seriously, what do you make of that?

    I'm not fond of thinking like this. I'd just LOVE to accept people and help them.
    I've got many friends who are from other countries, but their parents came earlier (and might I add from better cultures than Iraq and Somalia).
    I have friends from Iran, Thailand, Vietnam, Turkey and Bosnia. Hell, those from Iran, Turkey and Bosnia are even nominally muslim, but they are secularized.
    More importantly, they don't engage in honor killings, rape, theft and violence. They know our ways and our laws and they consider them their own.
    The more uncivilized desert nomad culture of Iraq and... Whatever one should call Somalia... Well, those cultures are NOT pleasant.
    Thing is, all the people who come here tend to gather in the same places because of low cost rental apartments.
    The predominant culture in those areas tend to be the Iraqi and/or somali. All the people who come here from other places will i.e. have their kids grow up in that.
    We never had the same problems with european immigrants or refugees earlier, but those that are still in those areas from other countries than Iraq and Somalia has their kids turned into crap through the environment.
    I can safely say that while there is such a thing as ignorance and that it relates closely with the phenomenon of xenophobia, this is not the case here.
    I have to take part of these cultures every day, since I have lived in those areas for years.
    Outside my window, there are somali children running around and laughing. While they are innocent, funny and cute, I can not oversee what they will become when they age ten years or so.
    Because of the bloody horrors that my own kind have to go through to house them, giving away 17.5% of the entire tax money paid each year by swedes to giving them welfare.
    Seriously, we are paying to have them here. Very, very few countries does that. And they abuse it to no end.
    It is meant as a help to get on their feet, instead they get ten or twelve kids and just live off of social welfare. If they work at all, they generally do it on the down-low without paying taxes.
    It's not prejudice, I see this every day. I do not live at a safe distance away from this.
    I hear and see the crime, the violence, the culture clashes and all the fucked up things that has to do with it.

    SO, don't come jibbering about my ignorance. You probably live in some safe little suburban area in a country that doesn't take in as much.
    Hell, there are mid-sized communities in my country that take on more immigrants from the middle east than the whole of the United States.
    So, respectfully refrain from playing that idiot card again. It's just a cheap trick.
    While I have grown intolerant because I have seen too much, I am not narrow-minded, ignorant or arrogant.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  8. #18
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Speaking for my own country, there is a lot of uncertainty concerning the Islam that people fear. We've opened our borders for fugitives of all races and religions for a long time and did our best to integrate them, and in many cases very succesfully. But there's also a large part of the people that don't see this, and only hear the bad stuff in the news. One article saying "busdriver beat up by morrocans" against five articles of caucasian crimes, and people will remember and identify themselves with the one saying morrocans, because if we didn't let them in, that wouldn't have happened. As opposed to the caucasian crimes that are unfortunate but hey, nothing we could've done about that.

    It's that shallow perspective that causes a lot of fear and people to call out against the Islam as a whole.

    It's regrettable, because most of the people that came to this country are truely willing to integrate and do their best to achieve it. Ofcourse there will be bad eggs between all of the people that came here, just as there will be bad eggs within our own race. But this unneccesary friction will just emphasize the difference between our cultures and teenagers catch on to those differences easily and grow apart. It will only prove to escalate the situation and make way for the growth of more bad eggs..
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  9. #19
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    ^ Your statistics sound really odd. Over here, 7 out of 10 people in prison aren't native to this country. There is faulty statistics saying that "only" 3 out of 10 aren't swedish *citizens*, but that is still an overrepresentation.
    70% of the people in prison comes from a foreigner background, though. I.e. first, second or third generation, but still obviously not natives.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  10. #20
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    ^ Your statistics sound really odd. Over here, 7 out of 10 people in prison aren't native to this country. There is faulty statistics saying that "only" 3 out of 10 aren't swedish *citizens*, but that is still an overrepresentation.
    70% of the people in prison comes from a foreigner background, though. I.e. first, second or third generation, but still obviously not natives.
    It's not that bad here. I suppose it might be mentality, even though the last few years there's been an increase of uncertainty and fear, most of us still have that Amsterdam mentality and it catches on to those that come here as well.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

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