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  1. #71
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    As long as your understanding of the S&P excerpt is NOW clear, we're fine.

    I just hate misinformation or the spinning of what S&P are truly saying, in order to forward agenda. S&P have taken a baseball bat methodology to everyone. They're saying, either you nancy boys get it together which includes upping taxes on the wealthy AND containing entitlement programs or we, the financial community, are going to piss all over your stupid little pride and ego match.

  2. #72
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    As long as your understanding of the S&P excerpt is NOW clear, we're fine.
    It was never unclear. Your point had already been assumed.

    I just hate people telling me what I'm saying, thinking, or who I am.

    But lets just move on.

  3. #73
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    S&P does think that revenues are important, but not as important and containing entitlement spending.
    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    It was never unclear. Your point had already been assumed.

    I just hate people telling me what I'm saying, thinking, or who I am.

    But lets just move on.
    Then don't misrepresent as above quote, if you've always understood. S&P haven't said what you've stated. Assuming there was understanding all along, then it must have been deliberate misrepresentation which is commonly known as spin.

  4. #74
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    Then don't misrepresent as above quote, if you've always understood. S&P haven't said what you've stated. Assuming there was understanding all along, then it must have been deliberate misrepresentation which is commonly known as spin.
    Really?

    the plan envisions only minor policy changes on Medicare and little change in other entitlements, the containment of which we and most other independent observers regard as key to long-term fiscal sustainability.
    Then why the hell did they say that containing entitlement spending was KEY, where they just lamented that the option for raising revenues had been dropped off the table.

    Unless there is some unknown definition for the word key that I don't know, then it's being used as a qualifier here increasing entitlement spending's importance above that of the other items mentioned.

    They even did it twice.

    and the related
    fiscal policy debate indicate that further near-term progress containing the
    growth in public spending, especially on entitlements, or on reaching an
    agreement on raising revenues is less likely than we previously assumed and
    will remain a contentious and fitful process.
    Especially.

  5. #75
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Really?

    Then why the hell did they say that containing entitlement spending was KEY, where they just lamented that the option for raising revenues had been dropped off the table.

    Unless there is some unknown definition for the word key that I don't know, then it's being used as a qualifier here increasing it's importance above that of the other items mentioned.

    They even did it twice.
    It's key to long-term sustainability but that doesn't mean it's more important NOW. Y'all have to dig yourselves out of the shit pit first.

  6. #76
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    It's key to long-term sustainability but that doesn't mean it's more important NOW. Y'all have to dig yourselves out of the shit pit first.


    I don't even...



    Then why even mention it for near term progress in the second quote I posted.

    No matter how you slice it, reigning in entitlement spending is more important than increasing taxes (especially if the increase is just on the rich).

    Now tax reform and simplification might be as important but that's another can of worms entirely, and one which I don't know as well.

  7. #77
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    If the Democrats pulled these kind of tricks to get through policies they prefer (e.g. universal healthcare), do you think anybody would be using metaphors of blackmail, extortion, and kidnapping?
    Yes, they definitely would.

    It wasn't even that many years ago that it was a popular line to call Democrats treasonous because of how they were responding to the war on terrorism.

    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    Personally, I don't think more tax revenue will help, because the problem is systemic. Apparently, politicians have an incentive to keep running up unsustainable liabilities. If they have more revenue, then they'll just spend proportionally more until they're back in the same predicament. The discipline has to come on the spending and borrowing side eventually, like when ratings agencies begin downgrading long-term bonds.
    Wouldn't some observable pattern merge from this? To my recollection, globally and historically, there stands out no correlation between taxation rates and debt. That is to say, a country with a higher taxation rate does not also tend to have a higher or even necessarily and equal deficit.

    At any rate, that mere fact that a problem is systematic and a certain remedy is not is no reason to avoid using that remedy. A government can do more than one thing at a time.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Years ago, I used to think Ron Paul was someone worth voting for. After the global financial meltdown, I now believe he's delusional. We're no longer in the WW2 era and while simplicity can be the most elegant solution, gutting the entire system using old style measures, would damage the U.S. and the entire democratic "free" world beyond recovery for decades to come. It's way too late for many of his "solutions" of which the worst one would be to revert to the gold standard.
    He's not advocating for a gold standard, but argued it would have been better to have stayed on one. Yet the bretton woods agreement was flawed from the beginning. Rather he wants to legalise competing currencies with the federal reserve, like people actually being able to use gold and silver as legal tender as the constitution says so. If you'de try to do that, you'de be arrested and it would be all confiscated.

    The current system is breaking down, regardless of your views of the past.

  9. #79
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Then why even mention it for near term progress in the second quote I posted.

    No matter how you slice it, reigning in entitlement spending is more important than increasing taxes (especially if the increase is just on the rich).

    Now tax reform and simplification might be as important but that's another can of worms entirely, and one which I don't know as well.
    Because it's a sticking point for now with the Tea Party members and it's key for the future. As far as near term issues, no, you're just spouting more rhetoric to twist and turn what S&P are saying. If you don't increase taxes, the debit interest will kill you no matter how much nipping and trimming of entitlement programs you do. And pretty soon all entitlement programs will be axed just to support the evergrowing interest. It takes short and long term fixes. Control now and set up for the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tantive View Post
    He's not advocating for a gold standard, but argued it would have been better to have stayed on one. Yet the bretton woods agreement was flawed from the beginning. Rather he wants to legalise competing currencies with the federal reserve, like people actually being able to use gold and silver as legal tender as the constitution says so. If you'de try to do that, you'de be arrested and it would be all confiscated.

    The current system is breaking down, regardless of your views of the past.
    Right, so every merchant and business person needs to buy weight scales, precious metal purity testing equipment and be able to peg precious stones for valuation and also be able to accommodate a variety of currencies, pegging them for daily exchange rates.

    Like I said, he's delusional.

  10. #80
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    As far as near term issues, no, you're just spouting more rhetoric to twist and turn what S&P are saying. If you don't increase taxes, the debit interest will kill you no matter how much nipping and trimming of entitlement programs you do.
    No rhetoric here. Just posting what they said.

    Nowhere did I say that raising revenues isn't important, it is, I just said that it's impact on the debt will be less than that of cutting entitlements.

    No amount of twisting and squirming is going to change what I said into something it's not.

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