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  1. #11

  2. #12
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    I wouldn't panic...yet. There are still the other two rating agencies who've maintained triple A ratings.

    It's a wake up call for Congress and Obama to get it together. Cut some of the funds going towards entitlement programs and find ways to increase revenues by increasing taxes. The downgrading isn't that the U.S. can't pay, it's concern over the U.S. deadlocking hence unable to pay. The debt ceiling debates came across as petty bickering but with a willingness to default if either side didn't get their way. Who wants to invest in an unstable government?

    For anyone who voted in the Tea Partiers, reconsider for the next election. Your lifestyle and country rely on it.

  3. #13
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    As you probably already know I am not American. Actually I am not even from a place that can be considered to be your traditional ally. (like most of noneamericans on this forum)

    So I am going to be pretty direct with my thoughts.



    The first thing is that your currency is losing value.

    My local money is called HRK.
    So only a few years ago the ratio was 8-9 HRK for a 1$.
    But now the Dollar is barely holding it ground above 5 HRK for a 1$.
    However the HRK is pretty stabile for years and changes in its value are minimal.
    To be honest I haven't seen dollars (as a piece of paper) for years.


    So when your currency gets its value low enough it will be very easy to replace it with something else. (and then you lose your superpower status)



    The second thing is that as a country you are basically bankrupt. Even you new rating is probably too high to be the correct status. However since you have a reputation as country and basically you are the center of Capitalism this is being overlooked. Actually I can only dream that I will have your new status overhere any time soon. (next 20-30 years)



    The third but maybe the most important thing: You are geographically isolated and you have a huge defensive system. What allows you to be somewhat detached from others. What means that you many not fully realize that most of the world is basically sinking into chaos. (lack of food , lack of water , very bad education , massive pollution , political instability and civil wars , overpopulation, deficit of energy , .... etc)

    What in the end reflects on your economy which is some sort of a central processing. Especially since you have send most of the producing jobs abroad into areas that are becoming unstable. What damages economic relations since they are mostly based on trust.


    My 2 cents.

  4. #14
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    Here is my question. Since our credit rating is now downgraded.. does this affect how the US dollar is considered the standard unit of currency in global commodity markets? Do we lose our place for having the rest of the worlds currency pegged to the dollar? How does that happen if it happens? And what would it mean?
    It means that commodities like oil will be traded using the Euro instead. That will lower the value of the dollar *significantly*, since a lot of its value comes from oil.
    It means that your buying power will decrease a LOT and as such your over-all power.
    It means you can no longer maintain your navies all over the world, and that means you can't exert control over countries with smaller navies.
    Other countries like China and Russia, as well as coalitions like the European Union will have more control over things.
    It is not necessarily a good thing, and I do predict wars will be fought as a direct result of this. It's just a matter of time if the U.S loses world domination.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  5. #15
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    Ehm who trust these rating agencies anyway? It's a charade anyway, the rating of the US would have been much lower a long time ago. Their record of rating companies like freddy and fannie is a joke.

  6. #16
    Senior Member jimrckhnd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post

    Cut some of the funds going towards entitlement programs and find ways to increase revenues by increasing taxes. The downgrading isn't that the U.S. can't pay, it's concern over the U.S. deadlocking hence unable to pay. The debt ceiling debates came across as petty bickering but with a willingness to default if either side didn't get their way. Who wants to invest in an unstable government?

    For anyone who voted in the Tea Partiers, reconsider for the next election. Your lifestyle and country rely on it.
    I concur. This is a totally self inflicted wound. Any fool who can look at a balance sheet and understands political reality (NO... we aren't going to massively defun medicade - our aging population makes that politically impossible) should be able to grasp that triming federal spending (and much of this has to come out of defense spending - simple fiscal reality) AND raising taxes is required. There is no way for us to grow our way out of this. Given that taxes are at historical lows as % of GDP this really wouldn't be too painful. I mean seriously - we raise taxes to get our fiscal house in order and what does this mean? I postpone getting that 52" plasma for another 6 months? Since its likely to be made in China I don't see how this hurts the US much and the benifits of reducing the deficit more than compensate.
    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups

  7. #17
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    They're still shills. If I ran my finances like the US government does, I'd be in jail. We need to raise taxes AND cut the fuck out of the budget. I love how the GOP insists on cutting the budget instead of raising taxes, but at the same time only targets entitlement programs for cuts.
    To me that is a bit of a WTF.

    Unless politicians and the boardrooms were able to evidence to me somehow that they were personally experiencing austerity I'd not be pleased with that. The financial crisis HAS resulted in a major restructuring of the world's economies and its NOT being talked about, everyone who is not already rich is being left without a cent either because their taxes are rising or their benefits cut and the rich are all being put on welfare in their place, its taking from the needy and giving to the greedy.

    I'd wait for even worse in store because the corporations are already trying to pass off the welfare they're in receipt of as profits, its not and that's a totally false economy. There's nothing in the libertarian agenda which can get to grips with this and for a long time now its been good for little else, prescriptively, than providing a normative anchor for capitalist true believers. What real direction for the economy? Its internal contradictions are causing it to seize and fit but there's no one with a clue, let alone a consensus, for remedy.

    Socialists, I'd even say communists and fascists, dont really constitute a credible radical or alternative opposition either, they're just ogres that the establishment can use to frighten people with.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    It means that commodities like oil will be traded using the Euro instead. That will lower the value of the dollar *significantly*, since a lot of its value comes from oil.
    It means that your buying power will decrease a LOT and as such your over-all power.
    It means you can no longer maintain your navies all over the world, and that means you can't exert control over countries with smaller navies.
    Other countries like China and Russia, as well as coalitions like the European Union will have more control over things.
    It is not necessarily a good thing, and I do predict wars will be fought as a direct result of this. It's just a matter of time if the U.S loses world domination.
    Yeah but I think Europe uses soft power rather than hard power like the US, its even structured with different spending priorities to the US social and health rather than military, so it couldnt automatically switch even if that were desirable.

    There isnt a Pax Europa to replace the Pax Americana in the way that it replaced the Pax Britannia before it, I would predict that if the Euro became the "petro-dollar" and it became the world financier, the pinnacle of "soft power", then some of the hard powers like Russia and China would attempt skirmishes.

    To some extent the Russians have been doing this already with the UK, I've got suspiscions which border I've been told, on the conspiratorial, about weaponised environmental or climatic engineering but even excluding all that there's still the invasions of airospace, Russia's invasion of Georgia, the control of oil supplies to Europe. Its mad.

  9. #19
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    To some extent the Russians have been doing this already with the UK, I've got suspiscions which border I've been told, on the conspiratorial, about weaponised environmental or climatic engineering but even excluding all that there's still the invasions of airospace, Russia's invasion of Georgia, the control of oil supplies to Europe. Its mad.
    Mad ?


    Sounds more like they know exactly what they are doing.

  10. #20
    Senior Member jimrckhnd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah but I think Europe uses soft power rather than hard power like the US, its even structured with different spending priorities to the US social and health rather than military, so it couldnt automatically switch even if that were desirable.

    There isnt a Pax Europa to replace the Pax Americana in the way that it replaced the Pax Britannia before it, I would predict that if the Euro became the "petro-dollar" and it became the world financier, the pinnacle of "soft power", then some of the hard powers like Russia and China would attempt skirmishes.

    To some extent the Russians have been doing this already with the UK, I've got suspiscions which border I've been told, on the conspiratorial, about weaponised environmental or climatic engineering but even excluding all that there's still the invasions of airospace, Russia's invasion of Georgia, the control of oil supplies to Europe. Its mad.
    Fortunatly I think Russia has been knocked back down to the status of a regional power and will be busy for the next 100 years or so trying to reestablish its old borders and sphere of influence (the loss of the Ukraine and Belarus are major blows to their great power ambitions and they will work to get them back). Which is not to say they don't have scope for mischief - european energy supplies being an obvious pressure point. Not for nothing is Denmakr, FRG, etc. struggling to build alternative energy - not only is it good for the environment but there is a geopolitical reason as well.

    China is the real wild card IMO. They are seeking to wrap up supplies of raw materials and markets by any means neccessary and their military is becoming more assertive. One good thing is historically the Chinese military is pretty lousy - they just don't have a cultural tradition of holding their military in high regard nor having a particularly effective military. Chinese naval traditions scarecely exist and where they do exist - its a tradition of defeat and fiasco. But sometimes the Chinese forget this and much trouble can result.

    There is no question that US power is in relative decline and may well be in absolute decline: too many mistakes, too many indulgences. A true multi polar world will almost certainly result. This may curb US neo-imperalist impulses which is good but it may also result in instablity (bad). Europe may also be forced to upgrade its military capability as US power wanes - and that may cause them troubles as they struggle to find the cash and the politcal will to increase their military power.

    India might be a bright spot here. As their economy grows their regional military and diplomatic power is increasing steadily. If they can effectively stabalize the Indian Ocean basin that takes a large burden off the west. Now if the west could just disentangle itself from the Persian Gulf the strategic situation would be much easier...
    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups

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