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  1. #101
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    Silver is somewhat different story though, since it was at it's lows...and also kept artificially there by JP Morgan with a whole bunch of naked shortselling. Gold is the better indicator.
    Supply and demand drives prices of commodities, but if theres is little fluctuation in the actual products value, the price remains somewhat stable to gold.
    Meaning price changes has more to do with actual market forces, instead of the political forces.

    Any upheaval is irrelevant, it's simply a process...a transition. All which needs to be done, is simply make it legal for competing currencies. People will sort out whats best, and which they have more confidence in. That is all that is required.


    And isolationist is incorrect, because it requires two factors
    Non-interventionism – Political rulers should avoid entangling alliances with other nations and avoid all wars not related to direct territorial differences (self-defense). (Ron Paul)
    Protectionism – There should be legal barriers to control trade and cultural exchange with people in other states. (not Ron Paul)

    Which means isolationist label falls flat on its face, and the propper one should be applied. Non-interventionist.

    Have you ever held a gold coin? Have you held a very small gold coin? I have one which is maybe the size of quarter, and it's worth more then 100 dollars.


    This little thingy is now worth around 1700 dollars

  2. #102
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    I think the plan to sell all the gold in Fort Knox is a wonderful idea, actually.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tantive View Post
    Silver is somewhat different story though, since it was at it's lows...and also kept artificially there by JP Morgan with a whole bunch of naked shortselling. Gold is the better indicator.
    This is conjecture at this point since collusion and market manipulation haven't yet been proven.

    Supply and demand drives prices of commodities, but if theres is little fluctuation in the actual products value, the price remains somewhat stable to gold.
    Meaning price changes has more to do with actual market forces, instead of the political forces.
    So, let's take CPI and gold prices for the last three years. Do you see a difference in their trending? I know I do.

    Any upheaval is irrelevant, it's simply a process...a transition. All which needs to be done, is simply make it legal for competing currencies. People will sort out whats best, and which they have more confidence in. That is all that is required.
    Okay, now I'm laughing out loud. Literally! You can't wave a fairy wand to make commerce continue with massive disruptions. It's...delusional.

    And isolationist is incorrect, because it requires two factors
    Non-interventionism – Political rulers should avoid entangling alliances with other nations and avoid all wars not related to direct territorial differences (self-defense). (Ron Paul)
    Protectionism – There should be legal barriers to control trade and cultural exchange with people in other states. (not Ron Paul)

    Which means isolationist label falls flat on its face, and the propper one should be applied. Non-interventionist.
    Ever read anything about Ron Paul's views on the Steel industry? Sounds mighty protectionist to me...

    Have you ever held a gold coin? Have you held a very small gold coin? I have one which is maybe the size of quarter, and it's worth more then 100 dollars.


    This little thingy is now worth around 1700 dollars
    What do I care about gold coins? Beyond investing in gold, I don't want to haul around 1 oz. nuggets.

    And you've changed your original position that gold and silver are relative in value to product, rather than driven by supply and demand. When the global economy stabilises, you'll see that gold and silver will devalue accordingly. That's a given.

  4. #104
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    Predicted this would happen... many times. Wont toot my own horn though. Ill just sit and watch the epic acrobatic freefall of the markets worldwide.

    Shoot the wings off the eagle and watch it sky dive...

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    This is conjecture at this point since collusion and market manipulation haven't yet been proven.

    Hard evidence maybe no, but theres much these arent coincidences

    So, let's take CPI and gold prices for the last three years. Do you see a difference in their trending? I know I do.

    Do you realise that they don't count the most important things in the CPI anymore? Like food and energy? They used to have that in it, they removed it not so long ago I think

    Okay, now I'm laughing out loud. Literally! You can't wave a fairy wand to make commerce continue with massive disruptions. It's...delusional.

    There are no disruptions, commerce simply continiues. People can simply choose to pay in federal reserve notes or gold and silver if the store accepts them. The only disruptions currently happening are from the government, which puts people in jail for using gold and silver as legal tender...even though the constitution demands it.

    Ever read anything about Ron Paul's views on the Steel industry? Sounds mighty protectionist to me...
    Hmm I read his bills and it had more to do with the damage caused by supporting and subsidising the foreign government with taxpayer money, which subsidises it's own steel manufacturers with taxpayer money. Meaning the US government is activly subsidising the US steel industry out of business

    What do I care about gold coins? Beyond investing in gold, I don't want to haul around 1 oz. nuggets.

    I was adressing your point of needing a chest. In fact in pure volume, you can hold a bigger store of value with gold then paper. It could even happen different, transactions are mostly digital....and all reserves are actually in the bank, it simply changes ownership.

    And you've changed your original position that gold and silver are relative in value to product, rather than driven by supply and demand. When the global economy stabilises, you'll see that gold and silver will devalue accordingly. That's a given.
    I didn't change my position. I simply hoped you assumed I already taken supply demand factors into account. Maybe I should be redundant in my next explanation.

    If politicians suddenly do not want to continiu with a destructive monitairy policy, then maybe the fiat currency can appreciate a bit in comparison to gold. Fat chance of that happening.
    In fact, the recovery hasen't even begun. The problem which required the recession to correct it, has not been delt with.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tantive View Post
    Hard evidence maybe no, but theres much these arent coincidences
    I'm anti-conspiracy theory. Next you'll tell me the Feds were in on it...

    Do you realise that they don't count the most important things in the CPI anymore? Like food and energy? They used to have that in it, they removed it not so long ago I think
    Nowhere did you state that food and energy must be "product". CPI calcs fluctuation of goods and services which equal product.

    There are no disruptions, commerce simply continiues. People can simply choose to pay in federal reserve notes or gold and silver if the store accepts them. The only disruptions currently happening are from the government, which puts people in jail for using gold and silver as legal tender...even though the constitution demands it.
    Right. So commerce continues when someone with Chinese Yuan goes into a U.S. grocery store and wants to buy $300 USD equivalent of "product". This is one incident. Now imagine millions of attempted and aborted transactions. You're being silly and you know it.

    Hmm I read his bills and it had more to do with the damage caused by supporting and subsidising the foreign government with taxpayer money, which subsidises it's own steel manufacturers with taxpayer money.
    That was just his spin. You need to read a bit more about what he suggested and what was actually being discussed by using the term "taxpayer" money.

    I was adressing your point of needing a chest. In fact in pure volume, you can hold a bigger store of value with gold then paper. It could even happen different, transactions are mostly digital....and all reserves are actually in the bank, it simply changes ownership.
    I see. Wonder how much U.S. paper currency is in circulation? Now translate that to gold and silver coins in poundage.

    I didn't change my position. I simply hoped you assumed I already taken supply demand factors into account. Maybe I should be redundant in my next explanation.
    It's not the gold/silver/copper coin wich increased in value, it's the paper currency which was devalued. Meaning the prices of the coin would relativly be the same to assets and commodities, while prices keep rising in terms of paper currencies.
    Bullshit. The above is what you clearly stated.

    If politicians suddenly do not want to continiu with a destructive monitairy policy, then maybe the fiat currency can appreciate a bit in comparison to gold. Fat chance of that happening.
    Right. Not going there any further as it relates to monetary policy since this opens up a huge can of worms that I'm not interested in opening up at this point.

    In fact, the recovery hasen't even begun. The problem which required the recession to correct it, has not been delt with.
    Recovery did start to happen a bit but this current round of my balls are bigger than your balls, has destabilised any gains made in the last few years.

  7. #107
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    I'm anti-conspiracy theory. Next you'll tell me the Feds were in on it...
    How the hell should I know, but you can tell from the short positions and volume. I forgot where I found that data. And the gold silver ratio was quite fucked for a long while.

    Nowhere did you state that food and energy must be "product". CPI calcs fluctuation of goods and services which equal product.
    CPI has no meaning unless they actually put in everything in that basket. It's nice the government comes with statistics while excluding vital parts from the calculations.

    Right. So commerce continues when someone with Chinese Yuan goes into a U.S. grocery store and wants to buy $300 USD equivalent of "product". This is one incident. Now imagine millions of attempted and aborted transactions. You're being silly and you know it.
    Competing currencies, as in what the constitution says; only gold and silver are legal tender. If you tried using gold and silver as legal tender and or mint your own, you'de get arrested by the feds for 'counterfeiting'.

    That was just his spin. You need to read a bit more about what he suggested and what was actually being discussed by using the term "taxpayer" money.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-YDr_fgwEo
    watch this

    I see. Wonder how much U.S. paper currency is in circulation? Now translate that to gold and silver coins in poundage.
    The point is that people should be allowed to use it as money. That you can choose between a dollar which is depreciating rapidly, or one that doesn't
    You should better worry when they dump the dollar from overseas, and it comes flooding back

    Bullshit. The above is what you clearly stated.
    I shall be redundant an meticulously edit and redit my posts for your pleasure.

    Recovery did start to happen a bit but this current round of my balls are bigger than your balls, has destabilised any gains made in the last few years
    It did not begin, the restructuring process which is normal for a recession was simply postponed . And jobless rates are actually higher then they're telling you. Meaning they ensured with the policies of the last decade or so, that the recession is going to be a depression. A long one.

  8. #108
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    In the best example of a free market in money and banking that I am aware of, Scotland from 1716 to 1845, gold was not used as a medium of exchange. Most payments were settled in notes issued by private banks or cheques drawn on current accounts. Gold provided the monetary base, and each note was redeemable in some quantity of gold. In practice, however, these notes were so trusted by the public that banks kept an average reserve ratio of 2 percent. Gold was more commonly used in England where money and banking were highly regulated; anyone in Scotland who received payment in gold coins from English merchants would immediately deposit them in one of Scotland's many highly reputable banks. Even Adam Smith sung the praises of the Scottish banking system in his The Wealth of Nations.


    What might a free market in money and banking look like today? Hard to say. Would gold be used as base money? Perhaps, but the price of gold is more volatile today than in its past. My hunch is that banks would not hold any base money per se, but would instead use a basket of commodities as a new unit of account. The basket of commodities would be of relatively stable value. A unit of money could then be redeemed for some commodity of equal value to the new unit of account. What commodity? Gold would be a possibility, but banks could choose to redeem in something else if the price of gold is being volatile. This would help protect the value of money from fluctuations in the price of the monetary base -- a classic problem of any gold standard. Bank reserves (i.e. the collection of commodities on hand to satisfy redemptions) would probably be an even smaller ratio of deposits than during the Scottish free banking era.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Predicted this would happen... many times. Wont toot my own horn though. Ill just sit and watch the epic acrobatic freefall of the markets worldwide.

    Shoot the wings off the eagle and watch it sky dive...
    Oz is doing so well that even the Russians are buying Australian dollars as a hedge against the USA dollar.

    Shoot the wings off the Eagle and watch it dive while the Kangaroo keeps on hopping along.

  10. #110
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    ^*hippity hop* There is a markedly different atmosphere in affluent parts of Australia as compared with the US. Very interesting to observe.

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