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  1. #61
    Senior Member Sanctus Iacobus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    The problem is this...the police would have handled it differently if they knew they were being watched. But they weren't being watched, so they indulged, then they lied. Typical police behavior.
    Most police cars are outfitted with dash cameras, especially in areas with good funding, so I'm not so sure they thought nobody was watching.

  2. #62
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    It's a nice fantasy to believe that all police are moral, reasonable people who go into law enforcement to maintain the peace in their communities and yes some are, but in truth some of them are little more than borderline retards with excessive "self-confidence."

  3. #63
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanctus Iacobus View Post
    Most police cars are outfitted with dash cameras, especially in areas with good funding, so I'm not so sure they thought nobody was watching.
    Not good enough. The police can still do things off camera.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #64
    Dependable Skeleton Engineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Not good enough. The police can still do things off camera.
    By this logic, why shouldn't corporate CEOs also be watched on camera? Since some CEOs have a propensity for embezzlement, we should make sure that none of them get away with it.
    Also, why not monitor all people? Since people-- especially in cities-- have a propensity for crime and bad behavior (in fact, I'm rather certain that civilians do more violent acts than police officers in these areas) why not install cameras everywhere to makes sure that they behave correctly? People can still plan to commit crimes when they're not underneath the eye of a red-light camera... My argument here is that not all cops are terrible people. The news only reports the behavior of terrible people to begin with; I can't remember the last time I heard about a firefighter saving someone's life or a person helping the poor, mainly because the news only reports murder, rape, and violence to begin with. It boosts ratings, and it's often easy to generalize and say that everyone is like that picture that is being presented.

    And I understand how your point is that police officers are supposed to be serving and protecting, and that this is terrible behavior. Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with you. But putting every officer on camera, monitoring every officer's action... It would get in the way of the good cops' ability to do their job and pave the way for the government (or The Man, whatever is preferable) to utilize those monitoring devices for purposes other than the ones they were intended. A camera on every cop car, a camera on every sidewalk... why does this sound familiar-- oh wait. Police State. Right.

    And @Marmie Dearest: the correct answer is almost all are, not some are. Most police officers are decent guys who really do have a sense of justice and want to protect people. Again, it's the "borderline retards with excessive 'self-confidence'" that get reported on Channel 5 Late Night News. No one does stories on how good cops haven't beaten people up lately... why would they? Who would watch that? It's so much easier to get people riled up so that they'll tune in more often. News is no longer about facts, it's about shock value.
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  5. #65
    Senior Member Rex's Avatar
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    There will be no guns on the Norwegian Police in the near future...

    And the cops in this case was amaturs.

    Because its no problem for 6 guys to hold down one maniac and get the hand cufs on and if they wanted to they could then have cocooned him in ductape.

    Tazer and 3 guys would be enough.


    American Police is a bunch of gunslingers.. we hear about them over in Norway at the news once and a while.

    And btw why isn`t cops careing mild sedatives? Surely better than Tazers and pepperspray on mentally unstable people.
    Epic derailment:
    wierd memory work->Tamagochi->tetris->Starcraft2->thugs->Chess->german techno->Love parade->disaster->death..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1wH2...eature=related

  6. #66
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MatsNorway View Post
    There will be no guns on the Norwegian Police in the near future...

    And the cops in this case was amaturs.

    Because its no problem for 6 guys to hold down one maniac and get the hand cufs on and if they wanted to they could then have cocooned him in ductape.

    Tazer and 3 guys would be enough.


    American Police is a bunch of gunslingers.. we hear about them over in Norway at the news once and a while.

    And btw why isn`t cops careing mild sedatives? Surely better than Tazers and pepperspray on mentally unstable people.
    How the hell are Police going to get within good proximity, without tremendous risk, in order to execute a tazing against a guy that has high powered rifles? They're Police officers not Batman and Robin...

    American cops being "gunslingers" is simply a gross exaggeration. Do you believe everything you hear? These events of excessive force are isolated incidents and not systematic. In 2008 there were roughly 708,569 gun carrying Law Enforcement officers in the United States... Compare that to the number of unjustified shootings and you'll find, these stories are completely isolated.

  7. #67
    Senior Member Rex's Avatar
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    Yes low numbers... point is that in Norway cops don`t need a gun on a daily basis and yes the Utøya massacre had a slow reaction time if you ask me... but it does not justify guns on every single cop.

    "With a population of 4.69 million, Norway’s gun-homicide rate was .21 per 100,000. Gun-relate a population is 311 million, the U.S. gun-homicide rate of 3.85 per 100,000, 18 times higher than Norway’s."

    http://ewross.com/the_lesson_we_shou...ootings_PF.htm

    Its not a direct cross over as norway seems to be on average a bunch of rich people. But is poverty the lone reason for 18 times more killings?

    If you try to explain it by stating that Norway got less guns i believe we have more or similar amounts of registered guns. Lots of hunters and alot of sports shooters here.

    And my personal opinion is that we can tolerate bigger massacres once every 30 or 10 years if on average the killings with guns are lower including the massacres.
    Epic derailment:
    wierd memory work->Tamagochi->tetris->Starcraft2->thugs->Chess->german techno->Love parade->disaster->death..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1wH2...eature=related

  8. #68
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MatsNorway View Post
    But is poverty the lone reason for 18 times more killings?
    I honestly think so, yes. Considering the rampant crime problem in poverty stricken neighborhoods in America, especially in the big cities...

  9. #69
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    How the hell are Police going to get within good proximity, without tremendous risk, in order to execute a tazing against a guy that has high powered rifles? They're Police officers not Batman and Robin...
    I wonder this too.

    American cops being "gunslingers" is simply a gross exaggeration. Do you believe everything you hear? These events of excessive force are isolated incidents and not systematic. In 2008 there were roughly 708,569 gun carrying Law Enforcement officers in the United States... Compare that to the number of unjustified shootings and you'll find, these stories are completely isolated.
    Yes, exactly. It's a shame when people only see the police in the U.S. in this light .

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Maybe the police should be taught martial arts so that they know how to subdue people without murdering them.
    Yes, I would love to see this happen too but I'm sure that would be too costly for these isolated cases.
    Either way, this must have been one helleva fight between the man and the officers considering that during it, 2 officers suffered broken bones and the man was killed. The video was shot too far away to see anything in detail.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sanctus Iacobus View Post
    Wait, so we're saying that this person's schizophrenia is the reason that, (and here is a quote from the media, so who knows what was actually said)

    Fullerton police Sgt Andrew Goodrich said that Thomas began to fight officers as they tried to search him.
    He said: 'We don't know why he was so combative and resistant to the officers, but it took upwards of five to six officers to subdue him.
    'Sometimes when we take people into custody who don't want to go into custody, we have to use force. It is never the preferred way of doing things.'

    Maybe that's a symptom of schizophrenia I'm not familiar with, or perhaps his schizophrenia contributed to his violent reaction, which makes sense if he is that out of touch with what is going on.
    I know this is possible because under the influence of certain drugs, people will fight police and it can take a handful of officers to restrain the person. If this was the case, then this is a tragedy that this man did not receive the proper care and medication needed to function in our society and this was probably not the only incident he's had, if he's that out of touch. I imagine a group of mental health care workers would have handled him more delicately than the police.

    A better question is, why was this man homeless and uncared for if his father was a retired Sheriff?
    re the bolded: Just FYI - schizophrenia is a VERY serious mental illness. One of the only ones I take seriously. Most descriptions of it don't do justice to convey the severity of it's symptoms because we're used to seeing some of those same symptoms also being attributed to less severe and more common mental illnesses. Please read this article on that.

    Also, from what I've seen a fair amount of schizophrenics do not want to keep up with taking their meds, but the meds cut down on the voices they hear and hallucinations they have, so they end up not wanting to stay with their family or anywhere else for that matter because normal people will insist that they take their meds. They often end up homeless, and are most definitely those homeless people you see on the streets talking to themselves and having irratic behavior (they are not all violent though, many are peaceful, but they all hallucinate or hear voices).

  10. #70
    Senior Member Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    I wonder this too.
    They have guns available. They just need permission to get them first.

    Not sure how it works.. about them having it in all the cars and so on.


    How are the statistics on killings?

    Im guessing in Norway its mostly inbetween criminals and in family homes. Due to the system most criminals just surrenders as opposed to trying to shoot their way out. as they probably won`t get away in the long run and prison time is not that insanely long and unpleasant.
    Epic derailment:
    wierd memory work->Tamagochi->tetris->Starcraft2->thugs->Chess->german techno->Love parade->disaster->death..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1wH2...eature=related

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