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  1. #31
    Senior Member Kephalos's Avatar
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    For myself, I have another dream, that everyone gets paid to work to make or do things that are useful to other people. That way, there is no need to worry about who is going to pay for it, since the very same people who get the goods or services pay for them, and on the other hand every one can, through trial and error, keeping in mind their abilities, the sacrifices that they will have to make, and the rewards that they will receive, find whatever they are think they want to do.

  2. #32
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    I like the dream. I hope future generations acheive it, I really do.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Trust me, there are many many engineers out there who get a kick out of designing something to do the most mundane things in the best way possible. I see this sort of thing all of the time in hobby forums.
    What is an example of this?

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    But there would be no engineers to design the machines. Robotic janitors are much less cool than Terminator kiill-bots. There needs to be monetary incentives to entice people to do crappy but necessary jobs.
    Frankly, I think you'll find fewer engineers who want to design kill-bots than those who want to design self-cleaning toilets.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5ul7prwoiM
    [YOUTUBE="o5ul7prwoiM"]Self Cleaning Toilets[/YOUTUBE]
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da0u87JCjnY
    [YOUTUBE="da0u87JCjnY"]Frankfurt Airport[/YOUTUBE]

    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Trust me, there are many many engineers out there who get a kick out of designing something to do the most mundane things in the best way possible. I see this sort of thing all of the time in hobby forums.
    Yup. I agree.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  5. #35
    ThatGirl
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Frankly, I think you'll find fewer engineers who want to design kill-bots than those who want to design self-cleaning toilets.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5ul7prwoiM
    [YOUTUBE="o5ul7prwoiM"]Self Cleaning Toilets[/YOUTUBE]
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da0u87JCjnY
    [YOUTUBE="da0u87JCjnY"]Frankfurt Airport[/YOUTUBE]



    Yup. I agree.
    Lol @ the first commercial! I want that toilet!

  6. #36
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Trust me, there are many many engineers out there who get a kick out of designing something to do the most mundane things in the best way possible. I see this sort of thing all of the time in hobby forums.
    Very true. After all, the truly world-shaking developments come from seeing something mundane in a new way, rather than creating something de novo.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimrckhnd View Post
    My natural condition is sloth. Give me a stack of books and sufficent curry and I really don't have much reason to do much else. And I'm really good at reading and eating Indian food and I'd be happy to get paid for it. However, I'm not sure whats in it for the rest of society and why they might pay me for it.
    See to be honest I think that the transformation of the labour market would be only positive if yourself and others who felt exactly like you were removed from it, interviewing applicants who were competing because they like the job or want the work would be simplier, easier and probably wouldnt have to be done as often. That's only a simple example which I can think of.

    It appears contradictory to the culture which still values production and productivity over consumption but consumers are probably as important, in some ways, more important than producers to economies today, at least to the developed world, even if the rich transnational capitalists were maxing out their visas, which is pretty unlikely, they'd not be able to provide the demand necessary to provide confidence to producers to churn out the goods.

    I know there are ecological pressures within this model of production, it presupposes infinite resources for infinite demand, but it is the dominant economic norm and expectation in most of the world today.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    A society like that is not sustainable. There would be nothing in place to motivate people to produce the goods that everyone wants to consume.
    No, you see, the converse is true, without the assurity of a consumer base the companies which produce will not produce or if they do it could be in the manner of gluts and shortages, capitalism needs consumers as much as it does producers, someways mroe so.

  9. #39
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimrckhnd View Post
    My natural condition is sloth. Give me a stack of books and sufficent curry and I really don't have much reason to do much else. And I'm really good at reading and eating Indian food and I'd be happy to get paid for it. However, I'm not sure whats in it for the rest of society and why they might pay me for it.

    That's the way I am too and I suspect alot of people are like that. This is why I'm skeptical the idea would actually work as great as it sounds.

    I have a feeling that if people just did what they wanted when they wanted, productivity would suffer. People have to sometimes do what they don't want to do.

    What would work is for people to develop a good self-awareness of their strengths, weaknesses, likes, dislikes, etc. so they can best be matched to the most suitable careers. No career is perfect and people may not always get to do or act how they want all the time but in a well-matched career, you could probably come pretty close to ideal.
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  10. #40
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    To Do or To Be?

    When I go to a party, they ask me, what do you do. They never ask me what do you be.

    At first I am lost for words at this routine interrogation, but then I say, there is no need to justify my existence.

    This is met by blank looks as each person at the party justifies their existence by doing something, and so naturally they expect me to do something too.

    I try to tell them, to be or not to be, that is question. But this is lost on them and not one of them has the wit to reply, to do or not to do, that is our question.

    And I might reply, being always comes before doing.

    The Ancient Greeks taught us this, although they had slaves to do the doing. But today we have machines to do the doing, but still we fear being and contemplation.

    So at my next party they are sure to ask me, what do you do, with all the pride of obedient children.

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