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  1. #21

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    As Ignite said, this is EXACTLY why jaywalking is illegal, and she bears a large portion of the responsibility for her child's death. I don't understand why people are linking her possible punishment to the plight her other children would face if she were in jail. It's a total red herring. We'd never be thinking about that if she'd committed another crime like murder or bank robbery. It's only an issue because the victim of her crime was her own child and the fact that she grieves is somehow supposed to mitigate her culpability.

    There is no question that the driver should also be punished...DUI is a crime no matter what. But in my gut, I just don't see this accident happening if the woman crossed at a crosswalk, even if the guy WAS drunk. Anyone who drives also understands that under these circumstances this accident might have happened even if the driver were stone cold sober. I think it's messed up that a third-time DUI sentence is less than what she might get. But legal issues aside, I think this woman has more blood on her hands than the driver.
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  2. #22
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I wonder if one's opinion is influenced at all by whether or not one has raised children before.
    (Just curious. I'm not sure which way it would fall.)

    My opinion would also be influenced by actual visual scrutiny of the site.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I wonder if one's opinion is influenced at all by whether or not one has raised children before.
    (Just curious. I'm not sure which way it would fall.)

    My opinion would also be influenced by actual visual scrutiny of the site.
    I think people who raised children would view it differently, yes. I think they'd probably be more sympathetic to the woman in this case, because I imagine everyone has done stuff like that (although fortunately without the same consequences). I think there would be a sense of "that could have been me, and I'm a good parent". Which is probably true. I have no reason to believe the woman in question isn't a good parent.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

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  4. #24
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    1. She wasn't looking at 3 years in prison for jaywalking. She was charged with multiple different things.

    2. Whether or not she feels bad about losing her kid and/or still has remaining kids shouldn't have any bearing on her legal punishment.

    3. The story got all hyped up just because she was charged, not because she was convicted.

    Thank you media hype and spin for getting everyone all terrified of jaywalking and trying to get everyone all emotionally engaged in a story that ended up having hardly any relevance to anyone.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

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    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  5. #25
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    As I've said before, laws are not an end unto themselves, but a means to achieving the ideal society. I do not believe the spirit of this law is to cause additional suffering to a mother who did something which a majority of the population would have done if in the same situation; rather, I feel its existence is meant to prevent the streets from being filled with people, and to restrict walking to designated lanes (crosswalks). Also, I have a hard time respecting laws which are not regularly enforced. Humans are practical creatures, and laws become more difficult to follow the less likely it is that punishment will be exacted for the breaking of said laws, primarily because many laws are simply impractical (trading much for a small decrease in the likelihood of injury). In the end, sometimes individuals die as a result of the actions of many different people, and punishing the actors will do nothing to change the likelihood of reoccurrence; should suffering beget more suffering simply for the sake of superficial justice?
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  6. #26
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    Thank you media hype and spin for getting everyone all terrified of jaywalking and trying to get everyone all emotionally engaged in a story that ended up having hardly any relevance to anyone.
    Aren't you doing the same thing by turning this around and suddenly making it a commentary on the media?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #27
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    Who here hasn't jaywalked? Seriously.

    And the biggest factor I see here is that the driver was drunk. I have zero tolerance for that kind of crap.

    2. Whether or not she feels bad about losing her kid and/or still has remaining kids shouldn't have any bearing on her legal punishment.
    .
    Actually it should. This isn't one of those cases where you see someone who is a repeat offender for a crime, and oh this time something bad happened. This was a mother trying to get her kids home. I understand the need for justice, but I also see a great need for mercy as well.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    But in my gut, I just don't see this accident happening if the woman crossed at a crosswalk, even if the guy WAS drunk.
    Why? The little kid jumped out into traffic impulsively after he witnessed another person run across. That certainly could have happened at a crosswalk.

    She was charged with homicide by vehicle (second degree) and reckless conduct. Here are the exact statutes:


    Homicide by Vehicle
    (b) Any person who causes the death of another person, without an intention to do so, by violating any provision of this title other than subsection (a) of Code Section 40-6-163 or subsection (b) of Code Section 40-6-270 or Code Section 40-6-390 or 40-6-391 or subsection (a) of Code Section 40-6-395 commits the offense of homicide by vehicle in the second degree when such violation is the cause of said death and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished as provided in Code Section 17-10-3.

    Was her jaywalking really the cause of her kid's death in the same way that, say, accidentally crossing the yellow line in traffic and having a head-on collision resulting in the death of a passenger is the cause of the passenger's death?


    Reckless Conduct
    (b) A person who causes bodily harm to or endangers the bodily safety of another person by consciously disregarding a substantial and unjustifiable risk that his act or omission will cause harm or endanger the safety of the other person and the disregard constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care which a reasonable person would exercise in the situation is guilty of a misdemeanor.

    Does jaywalking really count? By crossing to the median, was she "disregarding a substantial and unjustifiable risk that her act will cause harm or endanger the safety of the other person?" And was it "a gross deviation from the standard of care which a reasonable person would exercise in the situation?"
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  9. #29
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Aren't you doing the same thing by turning this around and suddenly making it a commentary on the media?
    Not at all. Why would I try to make people terrified of jaywalking?

    I think it's always safe practice to question the information you're getting and the way it's given to you. If you mean I'm trying to emotionally engage people against the media, I can see how you would say that since I'm calling it into question in a way which could cause an emotional effect on people, but the post was mainly just a result of my annoyance at people's reactions over an issue that has been senselessly blown out of proportion and the general nature of comments that obviously were based on a lack of information/almost purely emotional response to like...the title of the article.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  10. #30
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    Not at all. Why would I try to make people terrified of jaywalking?
    Was that how you interpreted what I said?

    I think it's always safe practice to question the information you're getting and the way it's given to you. If you mean I'm trying to emotionally engage people against the media, I can see how you would say that since I'm calling it into question in a way which could cause an emotional effect on people,
    Ah, there we go! <<same page>>

    but the post was mainly just a result of my annoyance at people's reactions over an issue that has been senselessly blown out of proportion and the general nature of comments that obviously were based on a lack of information/almost purely emotional response to like...the title of the article.
    Well, I think people just comment on stuff because they're mostly bored or feel insignificant, and events like this are touchpoints/catalysts for them to express their own values and feel like they are saying something of universal worth.

    ... oh darn... did that actually just come out of my mouth?

    In any case, to comment with actual authority, I think we'd actually have to know all the details, not just the basic ones.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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