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  1. #1
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Default Drug Testing Welfare Recipients

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...74U6W320110531

    What are your thoughts on this?

    Most people I discuss this with are all for drug-testing. I have not taken a strong stance either way.. but I tend to fall into the consitutional violation camp. Beyond that, I have never been a big fan of any form of governemnt interference, the war on the American people drugs, and I seriously question how this will be cost effective!
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  2. #2
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    I seriously question how this will be cost effective!
    By giving fewer people welfare.

  3. #3
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    Beyond that, I have never been a big fan of any form of governemnt interference, the war on the American people drugs, and I seriously question how this will be cost effective!
    I agree, let's get rid of Welfare.



  4. #4
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    By giving fewer people welfare.
    But don't you think that the implementation of drug testing EVERYONE (and if you pass, then it is reimbursed).. the implementation of this department, tracking, I wouldn't be surprised if there is some kind of appeals process.. is going to be ALOT? I believe that another source claimed children will still receive their benefits.. one just has to get someone that can pass a test to sign up as receiver. And why do we assume there are enough people collecting welfare that are on drugs to even justify this expense? Anyone know of any studies that reveal these numbers?
    What this says to me: Drug users will continue to be drug users and just operate around the loopholes to receive benefits. Drug users can also do a few things to "test clean."
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  5. #5
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Yeah, getting rid of welfare wont stop drug use, or unemployment for that matter. That's wishful thinking and fantasy.

    I dont think the those in receiving benefits are entering into an agreement not to use drugs when they claim their benefits are they? What exactly are they agreeing to? That's the problem because its seen as a free gift or free ride (particularly in the more selfish capitalist crounties, by both benefits cheats and those most concerned about benefits cheating) and not a gift relationship with reciprocal obligations at its heart.

    The issue of drug use is a complex one and I dont believe that governments attempting to police illegal narcotics are at war with their people or any other shallow and simple minded sloganeering, the nets good at that, perhaps its all its good for and there's been a good book published lately on that topic called The Shallows, none the less it isnt the case. No matter how easy life would appear if all the complex problems could be simplified.

    However, with respect of benefits some people will see the choices which people receiving benefits make when spending those benefits as wrongful whether or not the violation of any other laws or taboos are involved.

    Radical capitalists believe that receipt of any benefits is tantamount to crime and looting, whether its wages as a state employee, unemployment benefits or even services such as public health insurance or utilities, police protection etc. There's no two ways about it, you're either Donald Trump (or possibly one of his bitches) or you're an outlaw leeching of his wealth.

    I'd like to know how the fuck anyone with that sort of mentality manages to function really, anyway, the crime to them isnt going to be the drugs or drug addiction but the benefits and I'll level with you, I reckon this rhetorical thread was created to air that opinion.

  6. #6
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Let them have the drugs, cut down on the welfare.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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    I'm against the practice of testing welfare recipients for drugs and denying them welfare because they use drugs. Sure maybe the meth addict shouldn't be trusted with free money as he might spend it on less than ideal means, but that's what happens naturally when you give money to someone in a capitalist system. Perhaps rather, special stamps or tickets that entitle the recipient to only certain locations where they may purchase what they need? Or better yet, how about welfare institutions designed to get the people off the stuff?

    Also, who's to say that every drug user is simply out to cheat the system? Seems like a rather absurd generalization if you ask me, to assume that just because someone uses drugs means that they're inherently irresponsible and incapable of being trusted with free government/tax-payer money. If Bob is an otherwise hardworking down-on-his-luck guy whom strives to do better in society but smokes pot on the weekends, what wrong would there be in allowing him help if he needed it? Actually, it's pot smokers who would be scrwed over my a selective welfare recipeint program; as where chronic hard core drug users would simply take a break from their drug (allowing it to clear out of their system) and take the welfare money, pot smokers would need to wait a month before they could get clean.

    Hell, not to mention that most people on the low end of capitalism live in the hell that is poverty, thus drug use becomes a medicine to them, ensuring that temporary nirvana, which combined with their depressive situations and psychological state of mind, entraps them into an addiction that they often have no control over in the first place.

    Really, the only reason for this whole 'test welfare users for drugs' is simply on the part of spoiled tax payers who feel that they're money should never go to anyone who could potentially be lazy in the slightest. Hell, most of these same people, ignorant as they are, think that the poor and homeless only need to utilize hardwork to arise out of their unfortunate situation. But maybe if these same tax payers weren't selfish and idiotic jack-offs then maybe, using a little ingenuiety and compassion, would opt for more drug clinics and rehab centers as well as full legalization of soft drugs, thereby perhaps reducing some of those poor individuals who fester and rot in the cesspools of poverty, a world often created by the side effects of capitalism, not of laziness.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...74U6W320110531

    What are your thoughts on this?

    Most people I discuss this with are all for drug-testing. I have not taken a strong stance either way.. but I tend to fall into the consitutional violation camp. Beyond that, I have never been a big fan of any form of governemnt interference, the war on the American people drugs, and I seriously question how this will be cost effective!
    People supportive of drug-testing for welfare recipients should be demanding the same of anyone receiving government assistance:
    student loan and grant recipients
    small business loan recipients
    Medicaid recipients
    Medicare recipients
    V.A. benefits recipients
    medically insured government employees
    medically insured family members of government employees
    state-funded homeless shelters
    ...right?

    I mean, why stop at welfare recipients? If you believe the division between drug-free and drug-user is the moral standard by which you can determine what members of society are deserving of their fellow citizens' help, then what's holding you back? Viva la revolucion.

    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  9. #9
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    Legalise drugs as controlled substances like alcohol, where there's a minimum age and if caught under the influence while driving or causing a rukus, there will be consequences. Beyond that, let the stupid be stupid.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Legalise drugs as controlled substances like alcohol, where there's a minimum age and if caught under the influence while driving or causing a rukus, there will be consequences. Beyond that, let the stupid be stupid.
    That's only going to create a lot of work for the police and justice system, is there some equivalent of being breathilised which could test for the narcotics you're talking about?

    There are consequences already, instead of creating additional (to now) legal penalties better to make everyone conscious of the existing consequences, the natural and logical consequences, its not as much fun as suggesting that everything should be legal and some sort of shady socialist conspiracy is all that's stopping everyones reckless bad choices resulting in the best of all possible worlds.

    The existing education programmes dont work, I dont know what the alternative is, although I think, at the very least, the implication that its all harmless and inconsequential unless you get in a ruckus or behind a wheel of a car isnt a good idea.

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