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  1. #61
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post
    - The male has to be aroused to be raped (am I wrong?); the female does not have to be aroused to be raped.
    It's a bit late, but let me address this: A) it clearly states in the story the man was fed Viagra. Not to be crude, but this seems semi-similar to a male assailant applying lubricant.

    and

    B) if a women were raped, and gained some incidental and fully unintentional physical pleasure during the course of it (which, I believe, does sometimes happen), it seems wrong to excuse the rape over that fact, does it not? One can become physically aroused when one mentally absolutely does not want that to happen.

    I'll also note pregnancy as, to my mind, the most legitimate difference between the two. As for penetration, a true value for the sexually inexperienced, but I think men probably have a bigger issue with that concept than sexually-experienced women (this is my assumption, as a man). Straight men find that concept foreign and terrifying. Women and/or gay men express their sexuality in that way as a matter of course. I don't know that they'd be as scared if it as an idea, at least not after a few sexual experiences.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  2. #62
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    It hurts like a bitch if those muscles aren't loosened up by arousal, down there, even if you lube up, so no. Also, from what I recall, Viagra only works if arousal takes place. It can support a physical response, but not create one out of thin air, I believe.


    Edit: I'm not taking sides in this debate, for the record, just correcting some statements.
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    There is still potentially meaning in peoples' laughter.
    Well I would have said it reinforces a particular sexist attitude that causes a lot of suffering. So laughing at it essentially causes more suffering down the line, as it filters into the rest of society and men who go through such ordeals are not supported as much. That's a generalisation of course.

    It's quite similar to finding male on male rape funny, and I don't really understand where it comes from. I understand the humour behind rape in general, like when people use it for exaggerated contrast, but that type of humour includes women and children being raped as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post
    - The male has to be aroused to be raped (am I wrong?);
    Arousal is not required to get an erection, far from it.

    Strangely enough, in the school I went to, they had four different names for four different types of erections. One for a solely "mechanically" caused one, aka contact, usually rubbing against clothing or manual stimulation. One for those caused by both arousal and contact, one for those caused solely by arousal and one for those with seemingly no cause. A "handsy" (sometimes a "rubber"), an "assist", a "twitcher", and a "mysterion" respectively. Heard lots of other names and categories, but rarely those four categories together. Some of them are hilarious though, like a "poltergeist" for a mysterion.

  4. #64
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    How are we defining arousal? It's a pretty normal occurrence to get erections even when nothing is actually producing sexual thoughts.
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    How are we defining arousal? It's a pretty normal occurrence to get erections even when nothing is actually producing sexual thoughts.
    Well I assumed it meant desire for sex, a sensation experienced when something is found sexually attractive. Being turned on, basically. Which is not required for an erection in the majority of men. I'm sure it varies by individual, but for at least some men arousal is not required for any sexual act. Ejaculation, orgasm etc. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case for most men as well, but they don't know it as they simply haven't tried.

  6. #66
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    If nothing else this highlights that rape is about power and violence, not about desire or pleasure.

    And it's freaking hysterical because no one takes men seriously as victims. And victim to a mere mortal woman? Ludicrous (and not the rapper) Its the same reason bears in tutus are funny.

    This is a completely 'safe' thing to laugh at. Its like 'opposite day.'
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

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  7. #67
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    FYI, I've been intending to come back to this, I'm just busy this week. I like to take time to write with empathy and humor because the emotional stakes are high here. Back soon.... (Did Jim get banned? I was gonna respond to his and others' posts. )

  8. #68
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    So two crimes were committed.

    And possibly there will be two separate trials.

    I doubt sexual assault is justified as an affirmative defenses of self defense/defense of property. Most jurisdictions crimes are against the state an not the individual so I don't see either crime justifying/excusing the other.

    They would be interesting trials/sentencing hearings to watch if they let in any of the (allegedly mitigating) evidence.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

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  9. #69
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    This is also one of those rare types crimes where it is the 'victim' who tends to return to the scene of the crime.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  10. #70
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Something funny just occurred to me. The suggestion that men can only get erect if aroused, and that this changes the nature of the crime, is uncannily similar to the argument that a woman getting wet equals arouses and therefore that she wants what she's getting if she gets wet while being raped. It's incredible!

    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    If nothing else this highlights that rape is about power and violence, not about desire or pleasure.
    I don't see the reason for mutual exclusivity.

    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    And it's freaking hysterical because no one takes men seriously as victims.
    Clearly!

    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    And victim to a mere mortal woman? Ludicrous (and not the rapper) Its the same reason bears in tutus are funny.

    This is a completely 'safe' thing to laugh at. Its like 'opposite day.'
    Well, perhaps it's the fact that I don't find it so ridiculous to believe that I don't find it funny.

    Or it might be that I don't think the experiences of random individuals should be used as symbols for the dynamics between entire, abstract categories. That is the logic, after all, of cheering on the murder of a Muslim citizen because some Muslims attacked your country. So men have power over women most of the time, that makes a random guy you know nothing about being abused by a woman funny? It doesn't really make sense to me.

    I do take it to mean that if this unlikely but unfortunate scenario were to happen to me, you'd consider it funny. Thank you very much.

    I'll ignore all of this only if it was sarcasm.
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