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  1. #101
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ignite View Post
    See my youtube video on page 1. His religious/political affiliation (as portrayed by the media) is a conspiracy.
    It's not really a conspiracy, it's just how the media operates. It thrives off sensationalism:
    [youtube="Zbb34ixU5OM"]Killer Snow[/youtube]

  2. #102

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    I dread to think what will come out of any trial, I believe that he will use this as an opportunity to make a mockery of consitutional, legal, democracy.

    One of the only ideological exchanges of my life with a neo-nazi was interesting in so far as I discovered how much they valourised struggle and conflict. They suggested that anyone who opposed them was involved in struggle and conflict. So while liberals, socialists, communists, others, may suggest that they profess other things are of more political importance or significance for them, such as co-operation, social disposition, reciprocal obligations (on the left) or even tradition, legitimate privilege or law and order (on the right), objectively they were living the fascistic ideal of perpetual warfare.

    I read some of the books after that like The Turner Diaries and, I cant remember the titles properly, Hunter and The Scorpion's Tail, it reflected the same, through all of them was the solid conviction that liberalism and democracy were/are weak and weakening, that the welfare states, ideals of a pleasant, safe, prosperous life were a ruse coveing up for weakness. A lot of it was sickass shit to read (especially the finish of the Turner Diaries) but it was, after its fashion, perfectly "rational", at least it was rationalised hatred.

    I'm always a little wary about the intellectualisation of politics like this, the left and libertarian currents have their own incarnations of it in things such as the unabomber and unabomber manifesto, but ultimately it looks to me like people channelling psychological difficulties, they have hardened their hearts and the old testament would have put it, they then need a channel and its usually violence.

  3. #103
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dread to think what will come out of any trial, I believe that he will use this as an opportunity to make a mockery of consitutional, legal, democracy.

    One of the only ideological exchanges of my life with a neo-nazi was interesting in so far as I discovered how much they valourised struggle and conflict. They suggested that anyone who opposed them was involved in struggle and conflict. So while liberals, socialists, communists, others, may suggest that they profess other things are of more political importance or significance for them, such as co-operation, social disposition, reciprocal obligations (on the left) or even tradition, legitimate privilege or law and order (on the right), objectively they were living the fascistic ideal of perpetual warfare.

    I read some of the books after that like The Turner Diaries and, I cant remember the titles properly, Hunter and The Scorpion's Tail, it reflected the same, through all of them was the solid conviction that liberalism and democracy were/are weak and weakening, that the welfare states, ideals of a pleasant, safe, prosperous life were a ruse coveing up for weakness. A lot of it was sickass shit to read (especially the finish of the Turner Diaries) but it was, after its fashion, perfectly "rational", at least it was rationalised hatred.

    I'm always a little wary about the intellectualisation of politics like this, the left and libertarian currents have their own incarnations of it in things such as the unabomber and unabomber manifesto, but ultimately it looks to me like people channelling psychological difficulties, they have hardened their hearts and the old testament would have put it, they then need a channel and its usually violence.
    One term to describe this kind of thinking is "fantasy ideologies".

  4. #104
    Senior Member Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcarius View Post
    No, 21 years maximum sentence for any crime.

    Not correct. We have lifte time custody. If you are proven to be nuts and dangerous you stay behind walls.

    Hes staying.

    He made a document with 1500pages. He has planned this for nine years. He surrendered to the cops after 2mins. It took the cops one hour before after first call to get him in custody. The massacre happended on a island.
    Epic derailment:
    wierd memory work->Tamagochi->tetris->Starcraft2->thugs->Chess->german techno->Love parade->disaster->death..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1wH2...eature=related

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by MatsNorway View Post
    A friend of mine cheated surten death as he worked as a security officer there. Hes home due to a surgery on his knee. (im very glad he plays fotball now).
    My condolences on the terrible tragedy, MatsNorway. And I'm glad to hear that your friend stayed out of danger.

  6. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    One term to describe this kind of thinking is "fantasy ideologies".
    I dont disagree with that, I'm surprised that when this author writes about the left wing version of this fantasy ideology that they stated "maybe a little of marcuse" perhaps its just a turn of phrase to emphasis his point that the individuals in question were only superficially aware of or knowledgeable about their sources but Marcuse was an excellent example of what he's talking about over all.

    Eric Fromm exposed Marcuse as not having an indepth knowledge of Freud, certainly not the knowledge that he pretended to in Eros and Civilisation, as it went on the discussion turned to debate and then diatribe, its excellent to read as an example of serious academic clashes which mirror the intellectual splitting and discord among some student commie parties.

    Fromm actually went from bemoaning the fact that as a popular writer Marcuse's version of Freud and Marx, which he felt were erronious, would become lodged in the popular psyche that way to suspecting Marcuse was not very well and harboured dark dreams of destruction.

    I myself have traced some continuities between the old sixties "new left" and political islam, they have creedos which emphasis martyrology and dying rather than living for a cause, sacrificing for perfection rather than sustaining amid imperfection.

    On the other hand a lot of commentators from the right wing, to a certain extent this commentator too, exaggerate the significance of those opinion formers back then, its an older problem, also I think the marketplace is still the strongest generator of expectations which then are transfered to politics. Many of the implausible expectations for life and choice sold to people by ad men and consumerism per se transfer onto politics, even religion, then people become hard hearted and angry when these expectations are repeatedly confounded. Then violent or, this'll sound bizarre, threatened, encroached upon by confounding forces.

    I could be wrong to do so but I think this crime in Norway bears some of the same hallmarks as some of the historical explosions of violence in Northern Ireland, perhaps even more instances, the reality is someone had a "I've had enough of this shit" moment, while everyone else thought "enough of what shit? What the hell's bothering you?"

  7. #107
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Yes, I wouldn't describe him as a terrorist. I don't think he was part of a program to terrorise society.

    I think it is a mistake to call hm a terrorist because it tends to make invisible those who have an organised program to terrorise society for political purposes..

  8. #108
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ignite View Post
    See my youtube video on page 1. His religious/political affiliation (as portrayed by the media) is a conspiracy.
    Seriously, man; I think Pamela Geller's heart is in the right place, but she allows her bias (which I share to a large extent) to lead her astray much of the time. The psycho in question might not be, strictly speaking, a 'christian fundamentalist', but he apparently strongly identifies with his conception of 'Judeo-Christian values' as a foundation of Western civilization, which seems to have been a motivating factor in his actions.

    That said, mentally problematic extremists of his type are simply not the foremost extremist threat in Europe right now, which Europol seems to recognize, to their credit.

  9. #109
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Within View Post
    He's a sociopath, it's a open and shut case. From the results of this ordeal one can surmise that he had a well thought through plan that he executed with cold rational terminator like behavior. A mass murderer with a agenda, that sounds like a terrorist to me.
    He did in fact target the people that he obviously dislikes. The kids at the island were mainly from the socialistic part of the political spectrum. The next generation of his enemies. What strikes me as odd is that they managed to capture him alive, I suppose that is a part of his plan as well. What he has accomplished so far is to put down the foundation for his message, later and for year to come authors and the media will pick up where he left off and do his bidding.
    I don't think a sociopath diagnosis is part of DSM IV.

    This reminds me of Timothy McVeigh.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #110
    Senior Member Rex's Avatar
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    He was laughting when he shoot some of the people.

    He is probably not a sociopath.
    http://www.buzzle.com/articles/socio...sychopath.html
    http://helpingpsychology.com/sociopa...the-difference
    Epic derailment:
    wierd memory work->Tamagochi->tetris->Starcraft2->thugs->Chess->german techno->Love parade->disaster->death..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1wH2...eature=related

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