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  1. #51
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    ^ gah, I clear my cache everyday and now can't find a link that explicitly says that. Maybe it was on their FB page, I will check there too.

    lol I may have to retract my statement there if I can't find this!

    Found the page from the NY Times I read last night though: http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2...-news-roundup/

    Anticipating the same sort of controversy that arose when the doll, called Baby Gloton (which translates to “Baby Glutton”), made its debut in Spain, the American distributor has come out swinging. An article posted on the distributor’s Web site, with the headline “God Supports the Breast Milk Baby,” says: ... same info as press release
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
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    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
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  2. #52
    meinmeinmein! mmhmm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Bible thumpers are a tremendously lucrative demographic. Remember Gibson's Passion of the Christ? Seeing that movie nearly became a new sacrament.
    "here's meat in the form as digestible as milk"
    "seven varieties: beef, lamb, veal, pork, liver, heart(!), and bacon!"

    aww i didn't know you were in an ad!
    every normal man must be tempted, at times,
    to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag,
    and begin slitting throats.
    h.l. mencken

  3. #53
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Do they still sell that? It'd go great on crackers.



  4. #54
    Symbolic Herald Vasilisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    The militant nature of some breast feeders.
    I have heard the term lactivists used for people who have this at the top of their list of concerns.



    So many kinds of toys that strike all kinds of people as odd. (anyone recall baby wee-wee? )

    All the different creations dreamed up by, and hoping to appeal to imagination, and not just that of children.

    I don't get up in arms about it as long as children aren't discouraged from exercising their imaginations in the way that feels best to them. I have no objections to the child whose fantasy is to emulate motherhood, they may find a way with harnesses and plastic or without it. And if this is merely therapeutic or a statement for those with means to produce the product, then so be it. Its a bit like the idiom about being able to bring a horse to water, but not having the ability to make him drink. You cannot force a thing to capture someones fancy. So if someone were to insist on his or her child interacting with this toy, and it didn't stir that natural creative magic which we call play, then its forced and simply a waste. I think where this can get detrimental is when people outside of the particular interaction consisting of child-imagination-toy (a very special and genuine thing) bring their own discouragements and thereby transfer the message that the child's creativity is wrong or not good enough. Unfortunately, though, that happens in little ways all the time to all of us.
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  5. #55
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Myself, my belief is that breast feeding is a choice. If someone wants to bottle feed, that's also their choice. If people don't want to watch breast feeding or bottle feeding in public, that's also their choice. They can also express their distaste to the woman who's flopped it out and chosen to do her thing or to the woman who pulls out the bottle. Action = reaction.

    But I don't agree with programming children to promote agenda.
    Ah, now see if somebody came up to me and started exhibiting "distaste" over a little nipple show while feeding my infant, alas, a very cold verbal tongue lashing would ensue.

    It's an Fi value being tromped on-I love my child and thus choose to care for him in the best way I understand-being breast feeding (although I'll read up on the link you posted re solid food at 4 months). I also find my body to be perfectly natural and feeding a child to be perfectly natural-silly Fi authenticity-and MOST IMPORTANTLY not a dirty, disgusting thing that should be hidden like poop, pee or a tampon change or even sex. So, while I did try not to wonder around topless, if a little nipple show is found to be disturbing, it is easy enough for others to look away.

    (I hold the same opinion regarding my son's insulin injections in public, a decidedly non-natural function which bothers people who are needle phobic.)

    I suppose I dont feel these things are inflicting logistical or value impositions upon others (Te or Fi), but they are me excerising my own freedom to do what I personally feel is right for me and my son-my Fi. The expression of my Fi is not normally meant to be condemnatory toward anothers values or actions-thus my nipple showing breastfeeding isnt meant to say anybody else should be nipplyshowing breastfeeding.

    EDIT-as a side note, I have many bottle feeding friends and would never think to comment on it-back in 2000, I did almost go to work for a PhD in Dallas who showed changes in IQ and vision in breast vs bottle, but the formula makers modified to include increased omegas as a result.

    In the same light, I find the doll to be quite funny, but not really disturbing at all. I likely wouldnt buy it, but if a friend choose to buy it for her kids, I'd not even take note.

    The reason is that if it is a lesson they find value in and choose to impart to their children, it is their place to do so, and not really my place to comment upon.

    Freedom of individual values and transference of those values to her children.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Frankly, yes, I find the doll distasteful and if I had a daughter in the future which would be unlikely, I wouldn't buy it for her.

    The bolded does describe part of my distaste. The militant nature of some breast feeders.
    Is this because they feel like they really are pushing their own values onto you and being condemnatory if you do not agree? I could see that being offensive as hell.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    But I don't agree with programming children to promote agenda.
    Hmmm. It's really hard to argue against the doll being a programming attempt. You have that totally right.

    But I also I try and program my son by showing how to hug and cuddle baby dolls or we paint his toenails for fun. Hell he was even pretending to put on make-up the other day. He sees me nude as well.

    I do this as I recognize, even by 4, he is growing up to be a pseudo-chavunistic INTJ man, who needs to be de-generalized with respect to his perspective of women and gender roles at an early age. Thus I very consciously manipulate what he experiences to try and install values that I find to be good. I value push on very few adults, but instillation/programming of values in my son is my job. So on a 1:1 level the programming is okay....

    The other thing I note-having breastfed my first son in 1996 and my second in 2007-people dont even notice breastfeeding anymore. It is just "normal". In 1996 people would become offended or even be rude, but not in 2007. We have all been reprogrammed already.

    ***************************************

    How do novel values become "normal" and when does this become detrimental? Perhaps it is one thing to push values upon those close to us but the "marketing" of values is more offensive...

    (Sorry to seem to pick on you Jen, not being argumentative, as much as mulling your thoughts/quotes over into a more meta discussion in a *NOM NOM NOM* sort of thoughtful way. I promise no nipple display!! )

  6. #56
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Ladies, you've touched on a pet peeve of mine. Why do mothers feel that it's okay to inflict their children and practices on society? The same thing happens with badly behaved children, screaming babies/children or breast feeding mothers while trying to quietly dine with others.

    I honestly don't understand the attitude.

  7. #57
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    There's something about the doll that is in bad taste to me, but I cannot put my finger on it to articulate it. I don't think it's "bad", but a bit creepy, yes.

    I suppose I resent that there are so many toys geared towards girls being in the mother-housewife role. There is nothing wrong with this role, but you just don't see the same for boys. How many toys encourage "fatherhood" as a role for boys? I'd like to see more of a balance in this area.

    That said, I am NOT creeped out by public breastfeeding, I do get sick of seeing breasts over-sexualized, and I can't grasp why other people are grossed out by a mother feeding her child. I only think it's inappropriate to breastfeed in an area where any other person should not be eating (because it's distracting or rude). I suppose if the doll is emphasizing the main purpose of breasts, then that is good. I just find it an odd thing to "play" for a little girl.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  8. #58
    Symbolic Herald Vasilisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    There is nothing wrong with this role, but you just don't see the same for boys. How many toys encourage "fatherhood" as a role for boys? I'd like to see more of a balance in this area.
    Thats such a good point. Thinking on this, the only example I remember seeing is the classic The Bunny Book, and that was published over a half century ago.

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  9. #59
    Ginkgo
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    You know i think whateve little couple on an island who has the lugsury of actually eating real crabs as opposed to the play-do at subway should be permitted to buy fake plastic nipples with their infant comrades that would be best for them because who are we to jusge them not lol meow

  10. #60
    FigerPuppet
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Ladies, you've touched on a pet peeve of mine. Why do mothers feel that it's okay to inflict their children and practices on society? The same thing happens with badly behaved children, screaming babies/children or breast feeding mothers while trying to quietly dine with others.
    Nobody's forcing you to look at women breastfeeding. Do you feel the same about people with a bad sense of fashion? I assume you don't. So let's get to the root of this problem. Are you jealous of their big breasts? Are you infertile yourself?

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