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  1. #31
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odyne View Post
    Sure, but why don't you tell me about them. (:
    It involved a religiously motivated armed struggle between Christians and Muslims.
    Wikipedia has more details.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Are you suggesting that Ahmadinejad wasn't voluntarily elected?
    Since we are on topic of democracy, I see a lot of people justifying the actions of democratically elected governments simply based on the fact that 50%+ of voters thought they were the best choice on the election day, as if that somehow absolves those governments of any wrongdoings or adverse consequences of their actions.

    "Congrats people of the Gaza Strip for democratically electing Hamas. Tough titties on those peace accords though, since your elected government preaches the destruction of Israel."
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  2. #32
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Since we are on topic of democracy, I see a lot of people justifying the actions of democratically elected governments simply based on the fact that 50%+ of voters thought they were the best choice on the election day, as if that somehow absolves those governments of any wrongdoings or adverse consequences of their actions.

    "Congrats people of the Gaza Strip for democratically electing Hamas. Tough titties on those peace accords though, since your elected government preaches the destruction of Israel."
    What? You have a problem with an elected government lobbing rockets over the border even during their own agreed upon cease fires?

  3. #33
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    What sucks is that some poor bystander, who didn't vote for either asshole, gets an unplanned rendezvous with a rocket, or a retaliatory tank round (depending on which side of the border the bystander happens to be on).

    But like they say in Africa, when elephants fight, the grass suffers.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  4. #34
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YWIR View Post
    Simple question: Do you think it is just?

    I personally believe that the Israelis are treating their muslim neighbours the same way Nazis treated the Jews and Poles. Israel is constructing homes for Israelis on Palestinian ground - Germany invaded Poland for Lebensraum. This is one of many similarities between Israel and Nazi Germany; between Zion and the Third Reich.

    I veremently oppose the killing of innocent Palestinians, the expansion of the settlements, the behaviour of the settlers and the general human rights abuse of Palestinians.

    But...

    Anyone that is decidedly against one side or the other overall, is either prejudiced or is misinformed/ignorant about the complexities and historical issues involved.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

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    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  5. #35
    Senior Member Sanctus Iacobus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YWIR View Post
    Simple question: Do you think it is just?
    Simpler question... are you Palestinian?

  6. #36
    Sniffles
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    I've already addressed the supposed religious origins of this conflict:
    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Actually, from what I have learned, the historical times when there was the greatest peace in the Middle East eerily correlate with the times when the religious institutions had the least influence there.
    A more accurate interpretation would be to say when the region was largely dominated by one hegemonic power, which arbitrarily forces the warring parties to cooperate. Kinda like how it was in the Balkans.

    But then again, your interpretation falls flat on another account as well: the fact that the conflict originated when secularist ideologies dominated both factions. Zionism largely was secularist in origins, as Blackmail earlier mentioned; and the Palestinians were originally motivated by Arab nationalism, which too was largely secularist in orientation.

    There were religious fundamentalist elements among the Arab nationalists, particularly the Muslim Brotherhood. However they forged an uneasy alliance with the secularist wings, and were constantly suppressed once secular Arab nationalists came to power. This was especially true in Egypt after the Free Officers' coup in 1953. Further crackdowns ultimately lead to Anwar Sadat's assasination in 1981.

    It wasn't untill the Iranian Revolution in 1979 that religious fundamentalism even became a major factor into the whole conflict. So we have a time frame of about 1920's(with the first Jewish emigrations) to about 1980ish, a good 60years were secularism is the dominant force in the region.
    So given the historical origins of this conflict, it's highly doubtful getting rid of religion will solve anything.

  7. #37
    Sniffles
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    Anyways......Dee you forgot to mention that the Mossad also killed Mickey Mouse.
    [youtube="g3VfZ7tJkGE"]Mickey's tragic death[/youtube]

  8. #38
    sophiloist Kaizer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    So given the historical origins of this conflict, it's highly doubtful getting rid of religion will solve anything.
    "The cure for the evils of democracy is more democracy."

    Ornament of the World by Maria Rosa Menocal
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  9. #39
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    I don't see it as extreme as Nazi Germany but it is extreme, unjust and horrible. It more reminds me of the segregation in U.S. south in the 1950s or South Africa when it was segregated; but worse.

    The region is a time-bomb and foresee there the massacre/genocide South Africa avoided.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  10. #40
    ByMySword
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Anyways......Dee you forgot to mention that the Mossad also killed Mickey Mouse.
    I was going to post on this, but since Peguy already took care of it, I know I don't need to. Good to see you're still around.

    I'll just sum up my thoughts without any backup history since I'm sure its already been covered and I don't have time to read through this whole thread.

    In my sole opinion, I do not think the "occupation" is just. However, Israel for good or evil has now been an "independent" nation for over 50 years now. Children have been born, families have been raised. While the ideal may be to push them out, with the "moral", political, and financial support they have, I just don't see it happening. It seems the best solution would be for the Palestinians and sympathizers to maintain a more Ghandian approach. This would gain international favor I think in the long run, highlighting Israel's more aggressive tactics. Either way, this conflict must end with a settlement if it is to end at all.

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