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  1. #1

    Default U.S. Debt Ceiling Negotiations

    I think the Democrats need to compromise on social security.

    I also think the Republicans need to compromise on taxes for the extremely rich.

    Opinions?

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  2. #2
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Both sides need to compromise, period.

    Doesn't matter if the Republicans signed a paper saying no to taxes.

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    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Democrats do not need to give an inch on Social Security. That's a solemn promise made to pay back what you've put in, and any cut represents a core betrayal of the American people by the snakes and cowards who live in Washington these days. Sad thing is, a good chunk of the Democrats are just as invested as the Republicans in seeing their rich political friends get their slimy hands on that fund.

    I have no hope for the Republicans. They are neither reasonable, nor see any point in negotiating in good faith these days. The country's too broken.

  5. #5
    Feline Member kelric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Democrats do not need to give an inch on Social Security. That's a solemn promise made to pay back what you've put in, and any cut represents a core betrayal of the American people by the snakes and cowards who live in Washington these days. Sad thing is, a good chunk of the Democrats are just as invested as the Republicans in seeing their rich political friends get their slimy hands on that fund.

    I have no hope for the Republicans. They are neither reasonable, nor see any point in negotiating in good faith these days. The country's too broken.
    This. First thing, Social Security isn't even in bad shape. Not at all. Certainly nothing to propose changes to benefits now. Bump up the limit at which people have to stop paying payroll taxes (or eliminate it), and things are largely okay with Social Security itself.

    This also isn't an issue of "both sides won't compromise". The Democrats have been compromising - *way* too much. This is not an issue of "meet in the middle" -- it's more like me wanting to charge you $10000 for a piece of notebook paper, and you saying "well, that's a lot... I'll give you $5000 for it." Then me refusing your $5000 unless you also give me your car, and add a threat of bludgeoning your kids. You say "well, okay, but the car's low on gas." I chuckle and accept, taking your car and your $5000... and then giving you a ripped up piece of notebook paper. That's not compromise.

    The Democrats have been almost completely spineless in the face of ridiculously deceitful and purely ideology-based (and it's even a discredited ideology) nation-razing by the Republicans. The Democrats have done a poor job. Their only redeeming quality is that the Republicans' policies are so completely odious that they *almost* look good in comparison.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  6. #6
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelric View Post
    This. First thing, Social Security isn't even in bad shape. Not at all. Certainly nothing to propose changes to benefits now. Bump up the limit at which people have to stop paying payroll taxes (or eliminate it), and things are largely okay with Social Security itself.

    This also isn't an issue of "both sides won't compromise". The Democrats have been compromising - *way* too much. This is not an issue of "meet in the middle" -- it's more like me wanting to charge you $10000 for a piece of notebook paper, and you saying "well, that's a lot... I'll give you $5000 for it." Then me refusing your $5000 unless you also give me your car, and add a threat of bludgeoning your kids. You say "well, okay, but the car's low on gas." I chuckle and accept, taking your car and your $5000... and then giving you a ripped up piece of notebook paper. That's not compromise.

    The Democrats have been almost completely spineless in the face of ridiculously deceitful and purely ideology-based (and it's even a discredited ideology) nation-razing by the Republicans. The Democrats have done a poor job. Their only redeeming quality is that the Republicans' policies are so completely odious that they *almost* look good in comparison.
    That's the whole point. The Democrats Who Matter (i.e. anyone in the Northeastern/Ivy League elite) agree with the Republicans Who Matter (i.e. the same sorts of people) that we're not capable of governing ourselves anymore, and that we'd be better off splitting up everything piecemeal to be owned by the same Wall Street slugs who wrecked the goddamn economy in the first place. However, the Republicans have their base already swallowing the ideology hook line and sinker (helps, when most are authoritarians). Democrats don't have that luxury. So they hem and haw and put up a show for the "middle class," when in reality, they had no intention of doing anything differently.

  7. #7
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    If the Democrats have been making a mistake, it's compromising too much. They step right to appease the Republicans and the Republicans just feel emboldened enough to take their demands even further right instead of giving something back. You can't take a moderate compromising approach with people who are hostile to moderation and refuse to compromise.

    Furthermore, it would take a long time before our deficit would harm this country to the extent that not raising the debt ceiling and defaulting would. That's what particularly makes this seem like ransom on the part of Republicans. This is the kind of thing you should just say yes to obligatorily. It should not be considered acceptable that this sort of damage would be left on the table as an option for not getting your policy preferences met.

    Anyway, you don't pay ransomers. The Democrats need to start being conscious of that.
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    Obligatory post about how my French friends think the United States is a place of horror, and they can't believe how they treat their people and favor corporations and landlords over customers and renters. It seems ass-backwards and insane to them, and I'm like, "Yes, I know, I agree and I've lived in this place my entire life."

    If you compromise on Social Security you're going to have more homeless people and crime.

    THINK PEOPLE THINK.

    I think I should invest in a farm and few goats, because we're on our way to becoming a Third World Country if the Republicans get their way.

  9. #9
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Have you ever read the debates on TypeC or anywhere? Ever notice how they get more polarised, as each side rebutts the other side? Now apply this to a two party system. That's why ideology by letter of the ideology sucks the big one.

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    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I think I should invest in a farm and few goats, because we're on our way to becoming a Third World Country if the Republicans get their way.
    I wish that were more alarmist, but really, if you respond to every problem by cutting taxes, cutting social spending, and deregulating business, you're eventually going to wind up with a third world country.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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