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  1. #31
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    Bloodthirsty people never think for a moment that Casey is a victim too, and a young girl who needs help. Many like Casey simply manage to avoid causing casualties, but it doesn't mean they are more in-control of their lives.
    Hold the phone, there, buddy. How exactly is she a victim? Even though there certainly was not enough evidence presented in court to convict her of murder, it doesn't mean that she didn't actually murder her daughter (or assist in her murder/abuse her/cover up her abuse.) I'm not going to feel sorry for her.

    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    Please do and free us from the misery of seeing her face for another moment.
    Seriously. How is she not yet universally maligned?
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  2. #32
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Hold the phone, there, buddy. How exactly is she a victim? Even though there certainly was not enough evidence presented in court to convict her of murder, it doesn't mean that she didn't actually murder her daughter (or assist in her murder/abuse her/cover up her abuse.) I'm not going to feel sorry for her.
    I've studied personality disorders, and she shows signs of being bpd, and her father apd. It came up in the court case that she was possibly molested by her father and her brother. Her ex-fiance (who seems the most coherent of the bunch), has also been interviewed multiple times and vouches for the fact that her home life was highly-dysfunctional. Most people don't understand, but once in the throes of bpd, with an apd under your roof, there are no choices but to act bpd, much as one would act istp, and there appears to be no way out. Being raised by an apd and subject to molestation will mess people up to the point of being committed, and that's what this girl needs. She desperately needs help. Her ex-bf has vouched for it, and I believe that she loved her daughter to the best of her ability; her ability just wasn't very high. I don't see a monster at all; I just see someone who by victim of circumstance, ended up in a horrible position as a low-functioning borderline without a lot of options, and she killed her daughter for her own good reason (to prevent George from molesting her too), or Caylee drowned from her neglect (she's more than likely on drugs, and she's texting/phoning all day long, so she could've walked away from the pool and when she went back, Caylee was dead. Why cover it up? Because the father wanted to, since he was molesting her too). I don't think she isn't sorry it happened.

    I think above-and-beyond, that she is out of control of her life and herself, and that shows in the choices she is making. People don't just wake up one day and they are screwed-up... generally, it happens from growing up in an abusive family, and therefore, they are victims themselves who have to seek recovery. Unfortunately, people generally can't do that until they are older. It's not like having no family, but it's having the support of a family who supports your self-destructive behaviors, and that can be deadly... All in all, if that father had been doing his job, none of this would've happened, but he wasn't and that's all-too-clear. The person who is all-in-all responsible is the father... it happened under his roof, and he, imo, is the true monster behind this charade. Casey had not yet become independent; she was low-functioning, did not make a viable income to support herself and her toddler, and was dependent on mom and dad as providers and for support. Therefore, responsibility still lies on the father and mother in this scenario, for Casey and her child. Young people are generally victims of circumstance when in situations like this until they break away from the abuse cycle, and that means separating themselves from the sick fucks they call family. That usually happens 30-ish, after they've found a way to get help, and after they've exhausted all options, if it happens at all. I don't know if you've ever attempted to receive help in a mental health facility in the southern states, but many leave much to be desired. Not to mention with an apd around sabotaging your every move and finding connections within the mental health field, it's practically impossible to receive or find help. It takes time to figure all of this stuff out....and to find people who actually understand you and can help you. Some end up dead or worse..... unfortunate but true. Her only real option that I can see was to leave the state, and hide, which is what many do......but then what would happen to her toddler? And I am sure they would put a search out for her.....she was, and is, in deep waters, and I don't think it has really hit home for her yet. I don't think she realizes what a walking strobe light she is for a sociopath, "Victim Here!" lol.....

    All signs show that she herself is a product of horrible abuse and neglect, and yes, I feel sorry for anyone in that boat. It's a never-ending cycle of creating more people who also get sticks-and-stones thrown at them for being fucked up, when what they really need is to be committed and helped, in her case. Now, when a person reaches a certain age, yes, I hold them more responsible for their own behaviors, but not in her position and at her age. Especially since she is deeply troubled and acts more like a 15 year old in maturity, than a 26 year old woman. Technically, 18+ and responsible...... truthfully, she is mentally impaired and more like a child in a lot of ways. Her parents were housing these behaviors, and that tells me they were also uncaringly condoning them. Then again, a 40 year old is also going to have a different perspective than a 22 year old. 20's year olds think they are more mature and independent than they really are, generally. They still need their parents, and they make a lot of mistakes during this time. Clearly, the parents didn't care about their daughter, and that is for sure.

    George was called out for having an affair with a lady who came to the house to help find Caylee, and the lady claims he had sex with her, and stole her money. Sounds like Casey learned from dear old dad to me..... It was apparent that Casey was messed-up, and was arranging criminal activity right from their home, yet they took not one step to help her. Not one..... there's something wrong with this family. I would put my daughter in the car, and she WOULD GO get help, right then and there. Whatever it took.... Not to mention that they allowed their granddaughter to be kept by someone who was neglectful and sick.... unreal, just unreal to me.

    I don't think she murdered her daughter. Generally, bpd's are nasty.... but they are still human, and I just don't see one of them looking their daughter in the eye and murdering her without a dayum good reason, beyond just wanting to go out and party. That would be sociopath, and Casey is not apd. It's one thing to steal money from people, a completely different thing to murder your own daughter.

    This girl is so spun, that I can't believe this thing went to trial, and I would've been a whole lot more perturbed than she ever was if they put me in the media spotlight like she has been. All of this has done Nothing but make her condition worse. Shame on people......and shame on the media.
    Last edited by ICUP; 07-07-2011 at 04:33 PM.
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  3. #33
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Everything you've said is just as much speculation as the claim that she suffocated her daughter with duct tape and chloroform.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Everything you've said is just as much speculation as the claim that she suffocated her daughter with duct tape and chloroform.
    I'm sure someone could think that, but there are parts of it I'm pretty sure of, others I agree are speculative. EVERYTHING I've said is FAR from speculative, but there has to be a background in psychology and/or experience to understand that. To some people, some of it is as plain as day......much like believing the sky is blue or that A is the first letter of the alphabet. There are also many people interviewed that I have gained knowledge from concerning my judgments, so either i choose to believe them or not, and I already believed it before I heard them, so it just put the final piece in the puzzle for me.

    If someone is THAT fucked up, and they aren't in constant care, then that family is fucked up. End of story. It's not fucking rocket science lol......
    I seriously doubt my family would allow me to steal from my grandmother's bank account without taking some sort of action to change my behaviors lol, or that my dad would be caught having multiple affairs with people who were looking to help find his deceased granddaughter lmfao. The sad thing is, the dad fully fits the profile, and the story seems incredibly plausible considering the guy I thought he was from the beginning.

    Alot of it is just my opinion....... and yes, there is a wide variety of different opinions on the matter. Opinions are going to be completely different when you have been unhealthy yourself. Being mentally unhealthy is something that people generally can't imagine unless it happens to them.
    Last edited by ICUP; 07-07-2011 at 03:42 PM.
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  5. #35
    Glycerine
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    Sorry to say, there are still worse crimes in the world. I read that verdict was "not guilty" because they could not prove that the murder happened and how it happened If that is truly the case, the jury did the right thing even though it was likely that the mother had something to do with it. Regardless, there is still going to be public ridicule. If it becomes too much to bear, she can follow in the footsteps of the much more infamous Karla Homolka (moving far away and start a new family).

    I know the Anthony and Homolka cases are hardly comparably.

  6. #36
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    (x-posted at INTPc)

    The more I read and think about it, the more I now come to believe that the jury erred. I hadn't really paid much attention to this case until after the verdict, I assumed the jury did the honorable thing, seeing past the sensationalism and deciding the prosecution failed to meet the burden of proof. Looking at all the evidence available, there are doubts. However, the standard is any reasonable doubt. There will always be doubts, short of a confession or videotape of a murder. The doubt raised by the defense in this case appear to be desperate gambles to play a "what if" game, rather anything reasonable. There's not a single solid shred of evidence to suggest this was an accidental death, no one testified to this theory. It's all conjecture.

    I think the jury wanted a smoking gun, or some piece of direct evidence that tied the death of Caylee to her mother. This just isn't always possible. A decade of CSI TV shows has led people to believe in infallible DNA evidence and 3D animated models whipped up with a few keystrokes.

    People are convicted on circumstantial evidence all the time (see: Peterson, Scott). Just circumstantial evidence alone doesn't give rise to reasonable doubt. In this case, looking at all the actions of the accused before and after the death of her child, the only reasonable conclusion is she killed her child.

  7. #37
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    who the fuck cares if the bitch killed the baby. Life's a bitch, doesn't effect me in any way move the fuck on for me.

  8. #38
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    (x-posted at INTPc)

    The more I read and think about it, the more I now come to believe that the jury erred. I hadn't really paid much attention to this case until after the verdict, I assumed the jury did the honorable thing, seeing past the sensationalism and deciding the prosecution failed to meet the burden of proof. Looking at all the evidence available, there are doubts. However, the standard is any reasonable doubt. There will always be doubts, short of a confession or videotape of a murder. The doubt raised by the defense in this case appear to be desperate gambles to play a "what if" game, rather anything reasonable. There's not a single solid shred of evidence to suggest this was an accidental death, no one testified to this theory. It's all conjecture.

    I think the jury wanted a smoking gun, or some piece of direct evidence that tied the death of Caylee to her mother. This just isn't always possible. A decade of CSI TV shows has led people to believe in infallible DNA evidence and 3D animated models whipped up with a few keystrokes.

    People are convicted on circumstantial evidence all the time (see: Peterson, Scott). Just circumstantial evidence alone doesn't give rise to reasonable doubt. In this case, looking at all the actions of the accused before and after the death of her child, the only reasonable conclusion is she killed her child.
    There are too many "what ifs", so therefore, it is not beyond a reasonable doubt. Scott Peterson was a totally different affair, and a different person.
    Sure, it's mostly conjecture that it was an accidental death, but it's still possible and reasonable. Therefore, it's not beyond a reasonable doubt.
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  9. #39
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    (x-posted at INTPc)
    The doubt raised by the defense in this case appear to be desperate gambles to play a "what if" game, rather anything reasonable. There's not a single solid shred of evidence to suggest this was an accidental death, no one testified to this theory. It's all conjecture.
    Perhaps I am missing something but accidental (or nonculpable, at least as to first degree murder, to the accused) death followed by a cover up seems to be a reasonable doubt. The fact that so many other jury's would convict a ham sandwich if the DA told them too doesn't necessarily make what this jury did was wrong. The DA has the burden and under the law the defense isn't "obligated under the law" (although it might of have been malpractice not to have put on a better defense) to show anything except 'affirmative defenses' which don't appear necessarily applicable.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

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  10. #40
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    The question I have is this:

    When people try to cover up a murder, they generally call the police and report the missing body, else they incriminate themselves. She did not report the toddler missing, therefore, it's hard for me to see this as someone who was covering it up, but simply putting it off, or creating stories in their mind to pretend it didn't happen at all. Scott Peterson called the police and reported his wife missing, like any logical person would do if they didn't want to be found out.

    Say she is in sane mind and did commit murder... what would be the reason not to report the missing child? In order to give the body time to decompose? She is still in immense danger of being convicted of murder, and I can't imagine doing what she did, if I had committed murder and was trying to cover it up. It just doesn't make sense any way you look at it. If it was a murder and premeditated, this was the shoddiest, stupidest coverup known to man. It more looks like someone ended up with a dead body, panicked, and didn't know what to do.

    One of two things: The father did not want to call the police, or, Casey was too mentally ill to realize the child was truly dead, and therefore, didn't report the missing child. If the father didn't want to report the child because the body showed signs of molestation, violence, and/or neglect, that would give him reason not to report the missing child. If Casey "forgot" it happened right after she killed the toddler, or the toddler accidentally died, (which is quite possible with bpd or mpd), then she wouldn't report the missing child.

    Considering the evidence, it's hard to believe that this was a premeditated murder, at the very least. It's much easier to believe it happened by accident, of neglect or violence. I do think she should be convicted of something, just not premeditated murder. The trial doesn't make sense from that standpoint.
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