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  1. #31
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddon't View Post
    ...I knew all the way back in the Bush/Gore election that he was bad news and I was very vocal about it.
    And did you think at that time that Gore was the answer?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddon't View Post
    It isn't just whether you vote, it is who you vote for. If you voted for Bush, which I suspect you did under the delusion that he would provide you with a smaller government and a freer market, then I don't feel sympathetic for you and it is your fault. I knew all the way back in the Bush/Gore election that he was bad news and I was very vocal about it.
    Not to mention that these changes haven't occurred overnight. If you had fought every piece of legislation which stripped away a bit more of your individual rights, then I might feel sorry for you, but I'm sure you didn't. All you did was "vote" and "contribute". That isn't activism, and that isn't taking a very active part in the government.
    Libertarianism is backwards. It is ideology centered, like communism. It isn't practical, and it ignores the relativism of reality and the changing nature of people. It's a philosophy of individualism and it's inherent flaw is that we live in a world full of naturally occurring collectives. So libertarians have to ignore reality in order to justify their ideology.

    You think I voted for Bush? You're a freakin' riot. And EVERY vote is ideologically-centered. That is the point! You vote for someone with whom you agree politically. I have principles in which I believe, and that is the basis for my voting and activism: because it's the right thing to do.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #33
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Well, granted... but that's different from saying "...I feel it is the state's duty to protect its citizens however it can."

    This modified stance of yours is one with which I find somewhat more common ground. I still don't entirely agree with it... there are plenty of states that show little inclination to protect their citizens... but I do see that it's a trait of the better-developed republics.
    Well I do feel that way, but I also feel that it is each individual's duty to aim limit to the state's protection. I feel no sympathy for those who plea that the state should naturally protect their individual rights, when it is in fact, it is their duty to protect their own rights. Government is an active process and it requires its citizens to take an active stance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    And did you think at that time that Gore was the answer?
    I think the last 8 years speak for themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_moods View Post
    You think I voted for Bush? You're a freakin' riot. And EVERY vote is ideologically-centered. That is the point! You vote for someone with whom you agree politically. I have principles in which I believe, and that is the basis for my voting and activism: because it's the right thing to do.
    And that is why we get C average students like Bush for President. The "right thing to do" seems to be to vote for fools because they share our personal ideologies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddon't View Post
    I think the last 8 years speak for themselves.
    I'd like to see you back this line of thinking with a proof.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddon't View Post
    And that is why we get C average students like Bush for President. The "right thing to do" seems to be to vote for fools because they share our personal ideologies.
    I was pretty happy voting for the Libertarian Party in 2000 and 2004; some fruitcakes in their number, but some really smart and committed people, as well. I will vote for Ron Paul in the Republican primary in PA as a protest (I don't like McCain's belligerence nor his campaign finance reform nonsense). I wouldn't vote for any of the 3 major candidates for President this year. I'll think about voting for the LP candidate, depending on whom it is. I refuse to vote for someone simply because they have a better chance to win.

    And are you suggesting that we vote based on whom we consider to be the "smarter" candidate? I don't understand your philosophy at all. How would you determine the best candidate? Whether they seem intelligent or not? Debate prowess?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddon't View Post
    And that is why we get C average students like Bush for President. The "right thing to do" seems to be to vote for fools because they share our personal ideologies.
    Also, in 2004, we had rich-kid C-students running for President. Then what do we do?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  9. #39
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    *yowls* you never responded to me!

    I go and give you a delightful question and you don't even care!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_moods View Post
    I was pretty happy voting for the Libertarian Party in 2000 and 2004; some fruitcakes in their number, but some really smart and committed people, as well. I will vote for Ron Paul in the Republican primary in PA as a protest (I don't like McCain's belligerence nor his campaign finance reform nonsense). I wouldn't vote for any of the 3 major candidates for President this year. I'll think about voting for the LP candidate, depending on whom it is. I refuse to vote for someone simply because they have a better chance to win.

    And are you suggesting that we vote based on whom we consider to be the "smarter" candidate? I don't understand your philosophy at all. How would you determine the best candidate? Whether they seem intelligent or not? Debate prowess?
    Smart voters know their candidates inside and out. They know their voting histories, who their contributors are, their biographies, how well they faired in school, etc. It isn't just, "Oh they share of lot of my ideologies so I think I'm gonna vote for them." I would never vote for Ron Paul because he passionately votes his ideology over common sense and ethics. He even voted against a bill which was for the restriction of trade against a country that was committing genocide. A person should not be defined by their ideology, but how they think outside their ideology.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

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