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  1. #101
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Are you seriously going to ignore the fact that insurance companies limit or deny people's access to treatment in this country everyday based on their health history[?]
    Not only am I not going to ignore it, I'm going to point out to you that this was exactly the point of one of my earlier posts. YES, insurance companies limit or deny access on the basis of health history, and if your beloved DNA database come into existence they'll start denying access based on genetics too.

    I'm not certain why you would say I was trying to ignore the very idea that has been my theme during the discussion, though I am beginning to think that I have better things to do with my time.

  2. #102
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    *raises hand* Me! Insurance companies like to deny me coverage for health history reasons and such

    Really- being prejudged as a kid would have had disasterous effects on some of our lives

    Private industry should NOT ever be given access to records of that sort- and I really don't know how they would be assuredly kept out of thier hands
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  3. #103
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    *raises hand* Me! Insurance companies like to deny me coverage for health history reasons and such

    Really- being prejudged as a kid would have had disasterous effects on some of our lives

    Private industry should NOT ever be given access to records of that sort- and I really don't know how they would be assuredly kept out of thier hands
    The government shouldn't have it, either. They should be confidential under doctor-patient privilege, but that might not stop fraidy-cat parents from releasing them.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #104
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    :rolli: I don't know if doctors can be trusted in this day and age! Read anything about how your medical records will soon be available online?
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  5. #105
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    :rolli: I don't know if doctors can be trusted in this day and age! Read anything about how your medical records will soon be available online?
    I work in medical records. That won't be "available," unless someone commits a pretty big crime. Lots of health systems resisted going online for a long time because you are supposed to have multiple hard copies of everything health care-related, but it's starting to happen. The amount of information is just too large to keep up the whole system. And I actually would trust the IT administrators more than some of the people I work with currently at this hospital.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  6. #106
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I was reading about how the Mayo Clinic is making patients' medical histories available online and it is thought that other different health groups will probably do the same- it would be password protected and such, but I can't say that I'd trust that nobody would be able to access them illegally We've had that happen several times at our university with Social Security numbers and such.
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  7. #107
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I understand and can wrap my mind around what you are saying about freedom and it is a good practice to try and be as free within our thoughts and make the best of our given choices as we possibly can. That's all good..but there's no denying that people in situations where they are not free physically are worse off than those who are in situations where they are free, if both do these things.

    The slave owner might make a prison in his own mind or the choices he makes with what he is presented with and his free thinking slave might actually be more free in his mind, but the slave owner makes his prison by CHOICE, the slave does not.

    The slave owner has the ability to be free both within and without his own mind, these choices are denied the slave in the world outside his own mind. The slave might make a better selection of the choices he is given through better use of his judgement but the slave owner is free at any time to use better judgement and he may select from more choices or walk away from his situation altogether if it is too limiting. The slave cannot! (Yes, he could chose to run but let's assume for the sake of context that in this situation its a lockdown and he can't)
    Look at it from the Socratic perspective. The master has chosen to make his living by exploiting and coercing others, and thus he has sacrificed his spiritual essence. He is also bound to his way of thinking by the choice to enslave others because he must be able to justify his exploitation with his beliefs. He also has to compete with other masters so as to keep his slave, and that means he is obligated by many responsibilities that chain him to his plantation. His choices to enslave others are a greater chain than the physical chains he has forced on his slaves. He can no longer enjoy spiritual or mental freedom, which ultimately are far greater than physical freedom. And of course, we have no control over external forces, only the mental and spiritual choices we make, therefore physical freedom is just an illusion. The slave is only a slave, because he chooses to give into the external forces that confine him to that life. Nonetheless, he still has his mental and spiritual freedom. You suggest that the slave is "worse off" than the master, but I believe it is the other way around. The master has sacrificed his mental and spiritual freedom for the illusion of physical freedom. He has built himself a cage designed from his exploitation of other humans. By contrast, the slave can run from the plantation, can learn new ways to think, and is still spiritually pure because he lives off no other man.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  8. #108
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Not only am I not going to ignore it, I'm going to point out to you that this was exactly the point of one of my earlier posts. YES, insurance companies limit or deny access on the basis of health history, and if your beloved DNA database come into existence they'll start denying access based on genetics too.

    I'm not certain why you would say I was trying to ignore the very idea that has been my theme during the discussion, though I am beginning to think that I have better things to do with my time.
    Please go do them then and stop wasting mine. You were citing only the government entities, not the private ones. We allow private entities to do what you fear by keeping records of health history, and yet you consider keeping records of DNA to be a great hazard. How is letting insurance companies compile databases on mine, and my family's medical history any different than letting the government keep records of DNA for police investigations?
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  9. #109
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    How is letting insurance companies compile databases on mine, and my family's medical history any different than letting the government keep records of DNA for police investigations?
    Are you fucking kidding me? Does someone really need to explain this to you?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #110
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Are you fucking kidding me? Does someone really need to explain this to you?
    Shoot.

    But please leave the histrionics out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

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