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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    Whom are you addressing?
    Both of you, I guess... Just throwing it out there as a reinterpretation of the feeding metaphor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    Is that supposed to be taken literally?
    As literally as the "people need to feed themselves". It is quite unlikely that the people will feed themselves as the media pushes the status quo propaganda down their throats. It is very hard to actually learn how to look for the facts behind all this. I pretty much agree with your points. This is an anti-democratic system to the core. (And by "this system" I mean all countries in which government is controlled by finance)

  2. #32
    Senior Member Lex Talionis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Both of you, I guess... Just throwing it out there as a reinterpretation of the feeding metaphor.

    As literally as the "people need to feed themselves". It is quite unlikely that the people will feed themselves as the media pushes the status quo propaganda down their throats. It is very hard to actually learn how to look for the facts behind all this. I pretty much agree with your points. This is an anti-democratic system to the core. (And by "this system" I mean all countries in which government is controlled by finance)
    I thought that was what you intended to convey, but I wanted to be certain. Indeed, if our entire system is geared toward producing consumer wage slaves with a herd mentality, then that is exactly what we may expect.
    "Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily."
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  3. #33
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    I agree with the OP. There is a major problem of 51% of the population taking what they can from the remaining 49% most often for entirely selfish reasons as opposed to for the general health of society.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Lex Talionis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    (And by "this system" I mean all countries in which government is controlled by finance)
    Just about every country in that case. The global North consists of plutocracies, and these manipulate much of the events in the global South.
    "Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily."
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  5. #35
    Senior Member Lex Talionis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    I agree with the OP. There is a major problem of 51% of the population taking what they can from the remaining 49% most often for entirely selfish reasons as opposed to for the general health of society.
    What do you mean by this? If we have an entrenched two-party system loyal to capital along with a heavily biased media, then the public always has the option of voting for one or the other, or what voters subjectively perceive to be the "lesser of two evils." The "lesser" of two evils is nonetheless evil.

    In my estimation, much of the willful ignorance the public displays regarding voting is due to the fact that most individuals ultimately recognize that the entire political system is a farce.
    "Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily."
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    Just about every country in that case. The global North consists of plutocracies, and these manipulate much of the events in the global South.
    Yes. Basically all of them. It's relative, of course.

  7. #37
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    I'd rather see the apathetic voting in full force than the political extremists stacking the voting.

    I like our system of mandatory attendance for voting, some will never be interested but there are those who will take the time to educate themselves a smidge as they know they have to attend voting booth, so that their vote is representative. I potentially have greater faith in the average Australian's vote being based on something substantial than in America.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    What do you mean by this?
    By technical definition you could form the populist 51% of my country party and promise to tax the other 49% of the country to the hilt to provide them with a better standard of living; You've only got to convince the 51% of people that be both want this and to drop any moral objections. I question why lawmakers and government are the same thing.

    Regarding the general health of society a rational system would support itself to maximise itself, therefore it would determine, for example the optimum level of healthcare provision/education/prisons etc. for the wealth of society and to minimise externalities of behaviour. Instead we have 'I want more of this for my own reasons' or 'I want less of this for my own reasons' not 'this is the right level of this across the whole of the state' debated in every representative democracy because it is a trade-off between giving people what they want and what they need based upon the power of those groups rather than in the interest of the state and society itself. I'm a great believer in behavioural economics to determine the value of those externalities.

    Note, I do not propose solutions above. I just point out the major problems.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    I find it absurd to adopt such a position when our mainstream media are literally bankrupt regarding comprehensive coverage and fidelity to the truth. Expecting a functioning democracy to persist, let alone thrive, when information is purposely curtailed and dissenting views are never allowed the same degree of public exposure is ridiculous. The internet, for its part, actually has managed to increase public sensitivity regarding political injustice, but one cannot reasonably expect to find cultivated voters when the structure of our political system is thoroughly anti-democratic.

    Even if we take the position that the majority of individuals are idiots (something that I hardly contend), your vulgar notion of individualism is simplistic at best and wholly ignorant at worst if we seriously wish to uphold democracy.
    Your presumptions are pedantic at best, considering the Internet and access to many sources of media and any number of perspectives on the same issues. That people gravitate towards favourite media sources like Fox news, just affirms that voters are looking for confirmation biased sources. And what is truth, beyond perception?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    Clearly, nobody who seriously espouses participatory democracy expects voters to vote upon the technical details of economics, finance, foreign policy, research and development, and so on. However, I believe that maximizing participation as far as possible, presenting well-rounded opinions, maintaining equal representation, allowing for constructive debate, etc., and, after having secured a legitimate platform upon which such a democratic process can occur, offering the relevant possible options would serve to tremendously improve our dismal political situation. Technology would certainly enable greater potential for empowering voters. This should be done at least for local governments, which are, in any case, less complex and familiar to its residents.
    Once again, presumptuous. Best informed would be the best way to run countries. Who defines where the bar's set for knowledge level?

    Why solely for local governments, why not for all levels of government? After all, information is key to informed voting. The more information, the better.

  10. #40
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    Voting is bullshit.

    At least where I live.

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