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  1. #11
    Senior Member InTheFlesh's Avatar
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    The question gets too vague and can take too many different paths when we start to talk about ethics.

  2. #12
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    I think we're kinda drifting... The OP's question isn't whether voting is efficient, but whether it is ethical and under which circumstances...

    /voluntary thread police
    Huh? I'm confused. I don't see any posts that talk about efficiency, I only see posts that follow the OP topic.... Which post are you referring to?

  3. #13
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post
    Huh? I'm confused. I don't see any posts that talk about efficiency, I only see posts that follow the OP topic.... Which post are you referring to?
    I was talking about nolla and InTheFlesh's discussion of devices of power... I'll just shut up now.

  4. #14
    Senior Member InTheFlesh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    I was talking about nolla and InTheFlesh's discussion of devices of power... I'll just shut up now.
    I vote you respond to the OP now that you've derailed the derailment

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    I think we're kinda drifting... The OP's question isn't whether voting is efficient, but whether it is ethical and under which circumstances...
    I was talking about if it is ethical. I just think the question is less interesting from the voters POV, and the idea about limiting the right to vote is not practical at all, so I turned to the ethics of having a voting at all. At the moment it doesn't serve as a way for the little people to exercise power. It serves as a way to keep them content. The political leaders are not even running the world, the business leaders are. How much is this joke of a democracy going to help if it is under the rule of boards of executives? I think these are relevant questions.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InTheFlesh View Post
    I vote you respond to the OP now that you've derailed the derailment
    Hey, I did! I didn't contribute much, but I did.

    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    I was talking about if it is ethical. I just think the question is less interesting from the voters POV, and the idea about limiting the right to vote is not practical at all, so I turned to the ethics of having a voting at all. At the moment it doesn't serve as a way for the little people to exercise power. It serves as a way to keep them content. The political leaders are not even running the world, the business leaders are. How much is this joke of a democracy going to help if it is under the rule of boards of executives? I think these are relevant questions.
    I didn't say they were irrelevant, I just wondered whether they were, well, bigger than this thread and deserved their own.

  7. #17
    Senior Member InTheFlesh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Hey, I did! I didn't contribute much, but I did.
    Ahh! My apologies, I hadn't read it

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    I didn't say they were irrelevant, I just wondered whether they were, well, bigger than this thread and deserved their own.
    Well, the OP quotes made me think that this idea of limiting the amount of voters, and the question about the voter's ethics aren't going to amount to anything if the overall system stays the way it is. It seems to me like the guy in the quotes is missing the point when he asks about the voter's ethics. To me it looks like he thinks there's nothing wrong with the system if people weren't this dumb. I think there will always be lazy people, and I accept it as a part of democracy. The way to solve this is to make politics and business transparent so that also the lazy people can see what their vote bought them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Don't look so sad, you're breaking my heart... That's one devastated smiley...

  9. #19
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InTheFlesh View Post
    Ahh! My apologies, I hadn't read it
    Ha, s'okay, it was kind of a content-free post...

    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Well, the OP quotes made me think that this idea of limiting the amount of voters, and the question about the voter's ethics aren't going to amount to anything if the overall system stays the way it is. It seems to me like the guy in the quotes is missing the point when he asks about the voter's ethics. To me it looks like he thinks there's nothing wrong with the system if people weren't this dumb. I think there will always be lazy people, and I accept it as a part of democracy. The way to solve this is to make politics and business transparent so that also the lazy people can see what their vote bought them.

    Don't look so sad, you're breaking my heart... That's one devastated smiley...
    You have a point here... though I'd say disorientation due to several conflicting information sources can be a problem in addition to lack of transparency.

    I didn't mean to break your heart, sorry... It's Jennifer's fault, that cute-smiley-making cakesniffer!

  10. #20
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    That's interesting... I've had some of those doubts before - when you are unsure about the evidence, is it more responsible to vote in someone you support, so as to not be apathetic to your country's political/social decisions, or to refrain from doing so in order not to elect a bad leader?
    When I first read the article, I’d intended to read the book before starting the thread- because I’m wondering exactly what is meant by “emotionally appealing”- but I never got around to it. I do agree, though, that it seems like many voters are basing their choices on insufficient data- like mostly opinions of the peers in their own limited microsphere of life. So I think it isn’t a question so much of ‘do I vote for the person I support’ so much as ‘why do I support this person’. I personally think it’s even more apathetic to vote for someone based on support that hasn’t really been evaluated. If there weren’t so much pressure to simply vote to fulfill a ‘civic duty’- if the stigma were altered (to respect the action of seeking information, rather than respect the act of voting per se) then I think fewer people would feel the need to cast any ol’ vote for the sake of feeling ‘responsible’.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    If your choice to vote in the last election was significantly motivated by the above, you probably shouldn't have voted.
    I remember watching some documentary released shortly after the 2009 election- I just tried to look it up but can’t figure out which one it was- but there were some short interviews with random people on the street. Some of the people from the deeper South really kind of scared me- they as good as said “I don’t want a [n word] for president” as their reason for voting McCain. It just seems like a lot of people pick their choice based on the identity they want to present to others in their social sphere.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

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