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  1. #1
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Smile Victory for Free Speech in Holland

    We fought two world wars for free speech and we must keep fighting today.

    The Islamists tried to silence Geert Wilders, a Dutch member of Parliament and the leader of his party, but the Dutch court found him innocent of all charges and reaffirmed his right to free speech.

    Nonetheless the Islamists are trying to kill Geert Wilders so he must have armed protection at all times.

    So I would like to thank Geert Wilders for risking his life to protect free speech.

  2. #2
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Can you guys* swear in public yet?





    *Australia
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  3. #3
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    It is sort of interesting that criticizing the islamization of Europe should be illegal in the first place.
    We're traditionally speaking pagan and christian over here. They shouldn't be here in the first place, and if they want to live here they should adapt completely to the culture of christian europeans, or not live here at all.
    Why? Islam is not a peaceful religion, and it is opposed to everything we in the western world are. It is directly opposed to our existence, since we are unbelievers.
    Skin color and all that is just a bunch of crap, but culture and religion sure isn't. Islam is our greatest threat, and it has remained so since its creation in the 7th century.
    Have we so readily forgotten the crusades, the reconquista...? That's really just a few generations ago, strictly speaking. It's all rather silly and shortsighted that we let them in here at all, since there is no doubt they're the enemy.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

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    I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

  5. #5
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    Why? Islam is not a peaceful religion, and it is opposed to everything we in the western world are.
    Well, this depends on which Islamic person you ask. Is it almost every Islamic person who doesn't plan acts of terror or murder (nor wants to) but instead works a lame job or herds goats or just gets by, or an extremely small amount of Islamic people who are dictators and terrorists?

    Go back a few hundred years, and you have the majority of Christians who just go about their day doing what they need to stay alive, and the few who think the Crusades and the Inquisition are a crackerjack idea.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  6. #6
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    We fought two world wars for free speech and we must keep fighting today.

    The Islamists tried to silence Geert Wilders, a Dutch member of Parliament and the leader of his party, but the Dutch court found him innocent of all charges and reaffirmed his right to free speech.

    Nonetheless the Islamists are trying to kill Geert Wilders so he must have armed protection at all times.

    So I would like to thank Geert Wilders for risking his life to protect free speech.
    Great. Now what about the right of Dutch Muslims to dress as they please?

    I find it difficult to celebrate any of the Netherlands' victories in civil rights when they so readily abuse them when they see fit.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  7. #7
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    ^ But they're not dutch, they're not very good guests either. It's the same shit all over Europe right now.
    Hell, ten years ago I thought everyone who said what I just said were fucking nazis, but reality isn't really all that awesome when it comes to having the majority of them here.
    They refuse to conform to our ways and our laws which has caused a lot of friction. They do not respect our home, but demand us to just give, give and give.
    Needless to say, they are wearing out their welcome very rapidly.
    If you look at peoples that came here before, for example Italians, Finns, Turks, Chileans, Kurds and people from the balkans... They stirred up trouble in the beginning, but that is largely over and they're hardworking citizens now.
    A shining example of awesome integration is all the people from Thailand, Vietnam and all the chinese students we have here.
    They will bring our country forward for real. They're entrepreneuring, works harder than us and many excel at our universities. We're exalted to have them!

    The arabs, somalis and a bunch of other african peoples who have come here during the last decade or so, though...
    They're just stirring shit up and making everyday life a lot worse than it needs to be.
    They don't contribute much in comparison to what they cost at all. Seven out of ten people in Swedish prisons is not ethically swedish. That's just wrong.
    Common denominator that causes the most trouble: islamic cultures.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    Well, this depends on which Islamic person you ask. Is it almost every Islamic person who doesn't plan acts of terror or murder (nor wants to) but instead works a lame job or herds goats or just gets by, or an extremely small amount of Islamic people who are dictators and terrorists?

    Go back a few hundred years, and you have the majority of Christians who just go about their day doing what they need to stay alive, and the few who think the Crusades and the Inquisition are a crackerjack idea.
    Yeah I know some Muslim girls who are visiting the U.S. from France, and one was explaining to me one day "You know Islam is like Christianity 500 years ago."

    I think that just about sums it up.

    And it's why I run like hell from organized religion, because I know the roots of Christianity are equally as sinister as the shit we're seeing with Muslim people now.

    But it's important to remember, as you said, that most Muslims are just normal people.

    Then again it's exceedingly difficult when you have a culture of people who do not want to cooperate with the country they're moving to. Yes, you should help your immigrants, but those immigrants should also bend to your culture just a bit or GTFO.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Great. Now what about the right of Dutch Muslims to dress as they please?

    I find it difficult to celebrate any of the Netherlands' victories in civil rights when they so readily abuse them when they see fit.
    Different people have different tastes; in the UAE it would have been offensive for me to wear a dishdisha and run around abusing phillipinos; therefore there is the other end of the stick, their country their rules, the rule was 'you are not us an know it'. Although I had no problem with the majority of UAE women's clothing which is a respectful headscarf but the face is showing, I did find it bizarre when the full veil was being worn or more odder when it was the crazy metal plate on the face. That's just freaky. I did also wonder about how long it was going to be until one of those ninjas just flipped out and started killing people; because that's what ninjas do.

    Therefore in other countries they should behave at least within what is considered 'reasonable' in that country; if there is a reasonable expectation that faces should be shown; then why not? I believe the concern from such as Wilders is that because we do have a representative democracy it can vote itself out of existence. Remember that the last time this happened we had a World War and a mass genocide as the consequence.

  10. #10
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    This thread makes my stomach turn.



    I don't claim to have all the answers, but this immediately makes me wonder:

    Why is a a victory for democracy when a well known right wing demagogue who's party is classified as "authoritarian and undemocratic" in ta study on right wing extremism by the IVA institute at the University of Tilburg is aquitted of hate crime charges?
    How come this continent that prides itself in its liberal democratic values thinks it is too weak to bear the stress of some cultural diversity?
    How come a Muslim woman with a headscarf is a terrorist and an Orthodox Jewish or Orthodox Christian woman with a head scarf is just pious?
    Couldn't defining the West through identical religion and culture rather than a historic community with some shared core values set us back a few centuries?
    What is so enlightened about defining yourself as a culturally homogenous Christian population?
    How much of the problems with young, unemployed, socially isolated male Muslims that do exist in some European countries are sociological rather than religious or cultural at heart?
    What can be attributed to the essence of Islam and what can be attributed to regional culture that has nothing to do with religion? How much has to do with years of opression, colonialism and despotism?
    What percentage are we really talking about? How many people really pose a problem?
    How does the right of a Christian fundamentalist to isolate himself 8and maybe his family) from secular culture and differ from that of a Muslim fundamentalist?

    Just wondering. As I said, I don't claim to have all the answers. But I do think these are questions worth asking.

    And for those who love anecdotal evidence: my Iranian downstairs neighbors are Muslims and about the most perfectly integrated people I could imagine. They are med school students, upper middle class, very polite and the only time I hear them is when they play traditional Persian music on their instruments (50% of the time) or European classical music on their piano (the other 50% of the time). One of them is allergic to my cats, that is the only problem we have with each other.
    In other news, there is currently a trial against a German radical Christian father who kidnapped his own children and brought them to Africa to some Christian sect because he didn't want their souls to get spoiled in our liberal secular climate.

    Go figure.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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