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  1. #31
    Head Pigeon Mad Hatter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Please! The jihadists are mass murderers while Geert Wilders exercises his right to free speech.
    So you would be fine if those jihadist mass murders could claim the same right?
    IN SERIO FATVITAS.

    -τὸ γὰρ γράμμα ἀποκτέννει, τὸ δὲ πνεῦμα ζῳοποιεῖ-

  2. #32
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Hatter View Post
    So you would be fine if those jihadist mass murders could claim the same right?
    Yesterday they murdered sixty people in a hospital. Free speech looks pretty good by comparison.

  3. #33
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Right. But what exactly does this have to do with islam?
    The terrorists in question derive their primary motivation from and justify their actions through certain interpretations of Islam. Their more expansive interpretation of the Jihad doctrine sets them apart from the Islamic (or even the Islamist) mainstream, but Islamist (as opposed to militant) interpretations of Islam provides a de-facto support network and recruiting pool for Jihadists, and Islamist beliefs are not at all uncommon, and globally might very well constitute mainstream Islam (no one knows for sure)*. Either as a plurality/majority or as a large minority of Muslims, the problem of Islamism (and yes, there are different factions within the movement, most of which incorporate modern concepts along with traditionalist doctrine) is real and due primarily to illiberal interpretations of Islam, not imperialism, poverty, or alienation (as evidenced by the fact that there is no comparable global religious movement in non-Muslim countries or communities which are likewise subject to the latter, with the possible exception of Hinduveta movement). Religious reform is a crucial and monumental task, and must come from within the Muslim community itself to be effective, but outside pressure (in the form of social, moral, and intellectual pursuasion) is also needed to spur such a huge reform movement.

    *the most important single indicator of an Islamist worldview is probably the belief that apostates from Islam should be put to death: Muslim populations in only a few countries have been scientifically polled on this question, and the results range from a low of 5% in Turkey and Lebanon, to a high of 84-86% in Egypt and Jordan.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Please! The jihadists are mass murderers while Geert Wilders exercises his right to free speech.
    This is true; from what I hear if Geert Wilders had been planning to blow things up he would have been in jail at the drop of a hat; he's certainly unpopular enough.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    This is true; from what I hear if Geert Wilders had been planning to blow things up he would have been in jail at the drop of a hat; he's certainly unpopular enough.
    He is so unpopular he has been elected to the Dutch Parliament. And he is so unpopular his Party has elected him leader. And his unpopularity has reached its height when he and his Party have been taken into coalition with the Dutch Government. But still he is under threat of death by the Islamists and needs to be protected by armed guards day and night.

  6. #36
    Head Pigeon Mad Hatter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Yesterday they murdered sixty people in a hospital. Free speech looks pretty good by comparison.
    Actually, this doesn't answer my question.
    IN SERIO FATVITAS.

    -τὸ γὰρ γράμμα ἀποκτέννει, τὸ δὲ πνεῦμα ζῳοποιεῖ-

  7. #37
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    *the most important single indicator of an Islamist worldview is probably the belief that apostates from Islam should be put to death: Muslim populations in only a few countries have been scientifically polled on this question, and the results range from a low of 5% in Turkey and Lebanon, to a high of 84-86% in Egypt and Jordan.
    I would seriously dispute these findings. It is counter-intuitive for Egypt and Jordan to have the highest percentages, and to have such extensive levels of extremist views when they are clearly the most moderate Muslim nations. They are not as strict in their interpretation of Islam and jihadists have a minimal foothold there. Some woman in Jordan don't wear the hijab and dress in a western style (albeit slightly more modestly than some western women). Also I have traveled through these countries and experienced no prejudice against my being western and non-muslim.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    He is so unpopular he has been elected to the Dutch Parliament. And he is so unpopular his Party has elected him leader. And his unpopularity has reached its height when he and his Party have been taken into coalition with the Dutch Government. But still he is under threat of death by the Islamists and needs to be protected by armed guards day and night.
    Oh indeed, I agree. But you get my point nonetheless; he is under considerable momentary scrutiny.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    FYI for those who asked the metal plate I was referring to is called the Batoola.

    That's fucking crazy.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I really got to say that Victor is the most unlikely fascist demagog ever. I wonder if this was what Hitler was really or privately like behind all the razz mataz.

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