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  1. #11
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Also, Wilders claims to fight for freedom of speech (against the thretening tide of invading jihadis, veil wearing, goat slaughtering hords), but he compared the Koran to Mein Kampf and called for a prohibition of the book. How does that go together?
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  2. #12
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    ^ But they're not dutch, they're not very good guests either. It's the same shit all over Europe right now.
    Hell, ten years ago I thought everyone who said what I just said were fucking nazis, but reality isn't really all that awesome when it comes to having the majority of them here.
    They refuse to conform to our ways and our laws which has caused a lot of friction. They do not respect our home, but demand us to just give, give and give.
    Needless to say, they are wearing out their welcome very rapidly.
    If you look at peoples that came here before, for example Italians, Finns, Turks, Chileans, Kurds and people from the balkans... They stirred up trouble in the beginning, but that is largely over and they're hardworking citizens now.
    A shining example of awesome integration is all the people from Thailand, Vietnam and all the chinese students we have here.
    They will bring our country forward for real. They're entrepreneuring, works harder than us and many excel at our universities. We're exalted to have them!

    The arabs, somalis and a bunch of other african peoples who have come here during the last decade or so, though...
    They're just stirring shit up and making everyday life a lot worse than it needs to be.
    They don't contribute much in comparison to what they cost at all. Seven out of ten people in Swedish prisons is not ethically swedish. That's just wrong.
    Common denominator that causes the most trouble: islamic cultures.
    These are all irrelevant value judgments and tangential issues. I'm talking about rights. Either you believe in individuals having the right to choose what they wear on their body or you don't. What's next? Fashion police? Maybe we should give Joan Rivers a call and see if she's available to draw up a bill.

    It is utterly shocking the way in which the supposedly 'civilised' nations of Western Europe are legalising religious discrimination - and that's exactly what this is.

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Different people have different tastes; in the UAE it would have been offensive for me to wear a dishdisha and run around abusing phillipinos; therefore there is the other end of the stick, their country their rules, the rule was 'you are not us an know it'. Although I had no problem with the majority of UAE women's clothing which is a respectful headscarf but the face is showing, I did find it bizarre when the full veil was being worn or more odder when it was the crazy metal plate on the face. That's just freaky. I did also wonder about how long it was going to be until one of those ninjas just flipped out and started killing people; because that's what ninjas do.

    Therefore in other countries they should behave at least within what is considered 'reasonable' in that country; if there is a reasonable expectation that faces should be shown; then why not? I believe the concern from such as Wilders is that because we do have a representative democracy it can vote itself out of existence. Remember that the last time this happened we had a World War and a mass genocide as the consequence.
    But who decides what is the 'one right way to be' in a nation? You are talking about homogenising a national make up. How can such legal enforcement of projected culture be justifiable?

    Cultures aren't static; they are ever changing and evolving. Almost every nation has experienced mass immigration and/or conquest in its history, which then altered its ethnic makeup, and consequently, its culture. This has been happening for thousands of years, yet people continue to respond to it in the same way: bigotry, discrimination and hate. Its so ridiculously predictable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Also, Wilders claims to fight for freedom of speech (against the thretening tide of invading jihadis, veil wearing, goat slaughtering hords), but he compared the Koran to Mein Kampf and called for a prohibition of the book. How does that go together?
    Consistency of thought is a needless and inconvenient distraction for bigots. It best not to think too logically when one is spewing hate.
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    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    But who decides what is the 'one right way to be' in a nation? You are talking about homogenising a national make up. How can such legal enforcement of projected culture be justifiable?

    Cultures aren't static; they are ever changing and evolving. Almost every nation has experienced mass immigration and/or conquest in its history, which then altered its ethnic makeup, and consequently, its culture. This has been happening for thousands of years, yet people continue to respond to it in the same way: bigotry, discrimination and hate. Its so ridiculously predictable.
    In the 80's the Soviets sent a general to London to talk about various issues for number of weeks. During this time the general decided to engage in some cooking (being a man who valued quality in his food), therefore he went to Marks and Spencer's and bought various items. He asked the Home Secretary 'There are lots of goods in your shops and the bread was very fresh. Who organises the bread distribution in London?' The Home Secretary answered 'No one.'

    The invisible hands guides us comrade. The invisible hand does not simply commingle, it also choses.

  4. #14
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    ^ Exile iranians are exile iranians because they were against the old islamic stuff. Most often they are also very politically aware.
    Another thing to remember is that Persia/Iran have been civilized for thousands of years, while the majority of their arab neighbors only became civilized during the last century when they found oil and started building houses instead of living as nomads.
    It was actually turning around when liberal and socialistic values pushed religion away for a while, with its peak in the seventies in countries like Iraq, at least in the cities.
    But it got stomped out by... What? Yeah, ISLAM. The people themselves aren't bad if they hadn't learned to go about shit in a medieval fashion
    I'm perfectly fine with tourists and even refugees, as long as they go home or elsewhere when they've stayed their welcome or when the war has stopped where they come from.
    Hell, why not even help train and arm soldiers to go back and solve their problems instead of fleeing from them?
    We have our own problems, and immigrants currently cost up towards 300 billion swedish crowns every year. Our defense budget is at 60 billion. That's not okay at all.
    Our roads are starting to get worn down, our elderly need better care, our children need more teachers, we have over 500 000 unemployed young people in a country of 9 000 000.
    I personally had to FIGHT real freaking hard just to find a goddamned job. We'd have the money to fix these things if they left.
    We do *not* need the extra hands, either. Because like I said, we have a lot of Swedish kids who are unemployed.
    Our liberal immigration politics has caused this problem, and having been so stupid we will have to solve shit and it will be much worse than if we'd simply not taken anyone in.
    We should have done it like Australia, for example. They're not all that keen on taking people in if they don't need them.

    It's like this in a lot of european countries now. Especially Germany, the Netherlands and Sweden.
    It's not going to be pretty, because things aren't getting better from here. They're getting worse every year.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  5. #15
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Why is a a victory for democracy when a well known right wing demagogue who's party is classified as "authoritarian and undemocratic" in ta study on right wing extremism by the IVA institute at the University of Tilburg is aquitted of hate crime charges?

    How come a continent that prides itself in its liberal democratic values thinks it is too weak to bear the stress of some cultural diversity?
    Because 'hate speech' crimes are inimical to free speech, and thus liberal democracy. This verdict makes the 'chilling effect' on free speech less onerous, though the fact that Wilders was even brought up on charges for making and releasing 'Fitna' is already bad enough (its somewhat like Thomas Paine/Richard Dawkins/the metal group Deicide being brought up on charges for inciting 'hate' against Christians, with the appropriateness of their 'free' speech subject to effectively arbitrary judicial standards and majoritarian repression-which defeats the very purpose of having free speech rights in the first place).

    Why does a continent that prides itself on liberal democratic values think its too weak to bear the stress of actual free speech rights?

  6. #16
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Great. Now what about the right of Dutch Muslims to dress as they please?
    Apparently, lack of free expression can become a double-edged sword for opponents of free speech-what a surprise.

    Its conceivable that face-coverings can constitute a reasonable restriction depending on societal conditions (for instance, there have been several suicide bombings in Afghanistan and Pakistan by men dressed in Burqa's to avoid suspicion or identification), but I agree that outlawing things like hair scarves is plain and simply a rights violation.

  7. #17
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    KILL GEERT WILDERS! DOWN WITH HIM!!!

    *Yodels*


  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    I did find it bizarre when the full veil was being worn or more odder when it was the crazy metal plate on the face.
    FYI for those who asked the metal plate I was referring to is called the Batoola.


  9. #19
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Whoa. She looks like some crazy evil death rider knight.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    Whoa. She looks like some crazy evil death rider knight.
    Icy touch, plague strike. Sigh.

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