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  1. #31
    Aquaria mrcockburn's Avatar
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    if I want my baby to display a picture of a dolphin that bad, I'll buy it a t-shirt.
    3w4-9w1-?w6 (nearly headless nick)
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  2. #32
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    In the US there's already a missing child recovery and ID system in place so I wouldn't understand this.
    And anyways, IF (and that's a really big IF) something like this were to become necessary to ID children I'd prefer that thing that dogs and cats get under their skin. Tattoos on a baby? Err, no.

    Edit: It's called AVID

  3. #33
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEGERdeMAIN View Post
    Most of what people learn as children isn't a conscious decision on the part of the child. I think the example of older kids being pressured, but not wanting to take part in certain cultural practices is relevant to a degree, but an older kid is going to have the experience and sense of self required to make decisions about which parts of a culture are desirable and which are not. A younger kid will most likely go along with the protocol established by the parents and older members of the group, even if they have some unvoiced questions or reservations about it. They simply do not have the knowledge/experience to challenge cultural norms.

    As for the older kids, if they want to think and behave in a way that pleases them but displeases the group, then they will deal with the consequences, even if that means migrating elsewhere. In my family-tribe kids are expected to go along with the accepted religion, traditions and behavior that the parents believe is appropriate(going to college, attending mass, avoiding drugs/sex/rock'n'roll, etc). Once the children are out of college they can do whatever they want(although it may still irritate the elders), this is how a group with a common culture works - the elders decide the rules, the youth follow the rules at first and fine-tune, dispose of, keep the rules as they mature and identify which rules are necessary and which are arbitrary/useless.

    Subsequent generations are never carbon copies of previous generations and those changes are usually opposed by conservative members of a group. Societies "work" because of conformity and suppression of some desires/inclinations/wishes/dreams/etc that are incompatible with the norm. It's easy to observe this kind of conflict if you know any 1st/2nd generation immigrants. I'm only sharing my perspective, not making any moral judgments about whether it is right or wrong for every individual to go along with what society demands of them. I'm a bit of a black sheep, too, and I've been dealing with the consequences of my actions for the past ten years. It's difficult at times, but overall I'm happier. It's better to be an honest outcast than to accept and conform simply to fit in better. I think anyone with a strong ego would rather break out of the confines of cultural norms than suppress their personal identity, but they shouldn't expect others to understand or approve.
    Which is all well and good, but I'm getting a little lost as to the overall point in connection with the purpose of this thread: The OP is asking whether or not it seems sensible for parents to put cosmetic tattoos on a baby. Can you kind of tie everything in?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #34
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    If I had sex with a cow maybe then I had to brand it. But its seemingly unlikely that I have sex with cows... promise !
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  5. #35
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Which is all well and good, but I'm getting a little lost as to the overall point in connection with the purpose of this thread: The OP is asking whether or not it seems sensible for parents to put cosmetic tattoos on a baby. Can you kind of tie everything in?
    Which is a point that should be considered.

    Still, the question is more, where do we draw the line? (For kids who are older suffering peer pressure, couldn't people apply the same logic to demand some more level of conformity against the child's natural inclinations/wishes?) It's the same logic used to assign intersexed kids a physical gender, in order that they fit in... and then when they're adults, it seems many of them are pissed off because they would have rather been left alone to make that decision for themselves.
    ....

    It's okay to put cosmetic tattoos on kids for cultural reason, no I don't think people should tattoo their kids face with magical unicorns if they live in the USA, western Europe or anywhere else where they would be treated differently for it. Yes, I'm grateful that my German doctor removed my foreskin...don't' remember the pain and if I'd been circumcised as a teen or an adult, I'd probably have nightmares, night terrors and PTSD(Too humid here to not be circumcised, fungus would be a major issue with extra skin flaps)
    .
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  6. #36
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    Conservative angle of "discipline more" can also be taken to a negative extreme, like beating your children (which a minority of conservatives think is totally ok "put the fear of god in em" and so on).
    Jesus Random... where did I ever say it was ok to frigging beat your kids?

    I didn't, I only implied that the kid needs to know that things can always get worse.

    :P

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEGERdeMAIN View Post
    No, I was trying to double-quote you and gink at one time and it failed. People tend to disagree on what a "beneficial result" is. If, as in Lark's example, someone would be stigmatized by a lack of tattoos wouldn't it be beneficial for that individual to be tattooed, regardless of a little pain?
    Well, you're right. Depends on where you're from really. I've seen documentaries (can't remember well, correct me if I'm wrong)about certain tribes in Africa that put their kids through a lot of physical pain, as a means of " introducing them" into society/right of passage. There are tribes in Thailand that dress rings around young girls' necks in order to elongate them, because that is what their tribe/people consider to be beautiful.
    My own grandmother was tattooed as a child, "blue dot" patterns all over her, she doesn't remember the pain, but her parents did it, because it was considered a symbol of status. That benefited her socially.

    My point is, you're not wrong, to an extent. I think people are also generally well aware of the pros/cons of putting their child through a painful experience, with the consideration of how/if it will/might benefit them in the future.

    I don't think its so much about the pain, but more of the change that will occur because of it.

  8. #38
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YWIR View Post
    Well, you're right. Depends on where you're from really. I've seen documentaries (can't remember well, correct me if I'm wrong)about certain tribes in Africa that put their kids through a lot of physical pain, as a means of " introducing them" into society/right of passage. There are tribes in Thailand that dress rings around young girls' necks in order to elongate them, because that is what their tribe/people consider to be beautiful.
    My own grandmother was tattooed as a child, "blue dot" patterns all over her, she doesn't remember the pain, but her parents did it, because it was considered a symbol of status. That benefited her socially.

    My point is, you're not wrong, to an extent. I think people are also generally well aware of the pros/cons of putting their child through a painful experience, with the consideration of how/if it will/might benefit them in the future.

    I don't think its so much about the pain, but more of the change that will occur because of it.
    I never said it was right or wrong in any absolute sense. If I was MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE, I wouldn't want people doing anything permanent to their bodies for decorative or cultural reasons because tattoos and giant hoops installed in your ear lobes could prevent the individual from moving on and being accepted in other cultures. As far as the tattooing kids for identification reasons I've already said, along with others, that it might be better to use a baby-tracking chip since it's more difficult to remove than a tattoo. Honestly, I don't see what we disagree on. Am I supposed to be arguing with you?
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  9. #39
    figsfiggyfigs
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEGERdeMAIN View Post
    Honestly, I don't see what we disagree on. Am I supposed to be arguing with you?
    Huh? No, why would you think I'm arguing with you

  10. #40
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I hadnt considered that particular dichotomy, it wasnt discipline less or discipline more so much as dont discipline at all or no one knows better or different from anyone else so dont even judge.
    Any parent trying to live by that philosophy would soon become the child.

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