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  1. #41
    Senior Member MonkeyGrass's Avatar
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    DiscoBiscuit- I think the ability to shrug things off is kind of a learned coping mechanism, something that a baby whose mind is literally a blank sponge, if you will, for information, probably doesn't have the ability to do. I think lots of us get past things that are less than stellar and turn out just fine in spite of the less than awesome choices our parents make, not because of them. So, I guess, when it's my kid, if I think something's maybe not awesome, I skip it rather than seeking it out. That's all. That's the best we can all do.

    My point was that parents should be given the right (to a point) to decide what that "best" is. I think long standing traditions are that fuzzy, controversial area best left to parental freedom, for the sake of the good of the whole.

    Because, depending on who's in power and what the current trend is and what my personal convictions are, it may be ME that the mob with pitchforks comes after, and then...there go my rights to parent as *I* see fit. :P
    I think I think more than you think I think.

  2. #42
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    I would prefer the government back off. Circumcision is standard procedure for boys, correct? I think the fact that a baby doesn't remember the procedure is a plus. I doubt being squeezed through the birth canal was a ride at the water park. I'm guessing it's the most painful tramatic experience a baby goes through. Thank God I forgot.

  3. #43
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyGrass View Post
    DiscoBiscuit- I think the ability to shrug things off is kind of a learned coping mechanism, something that a baby whose mind is literally a blank sponge, if you will, for information, probably doesn't have the ability to do. I think lots of us get past things that are less than stellar and turn out just fine in spite of the less than awesome choices our parents make, not because of them. So, I guess, when it's my kid, if I think something's maybe not awesome, I skip it rather than seeking it out. That's all. That's the best we can all do.

    My point was that parents should be given the right (to a point) to decide what that "best" is. I think long standing traditions are that fuzzy, controversial area best left to parental freedom, for the sake of the good of the whole.

    Because, depending on who's in power and what the current trend is and what my personal convictions are, it may be ME that the mob with pitchforks comes after, and then...there go my rights to parent as *I* see fit. :P
    Exactly. There are people who think the amount of time that I nursed both of my children constitutes abuse. They are wrong, and they don't have facts to back up their opinion like there are facts to back up the opinion that routine infant circumcision is unnecessary (note the difference between the terms "abusive" and "unnecessary"- I'd be the first to admit that nursing past the age of 1 is unnecessary, but not all good things are necessary). But I don't want them in charge of my parenting, so I must return the flavor, as my daughter used to say

  4. #44
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    I would prefer the government back off. Circumcision is standard procedure. I think the fact that a baby doesn't remember the procedure is a plus. I doubt being squeezed through the birth canal was a ride at the water park. I'm guessing it's the most painful tramatic experience a baby goes through. Thank God I forgot.
    It's not "standard procedure" anymore. Only about half of infant boys in the United States are circumcised. It's a much lower percentage in most other Western countries.

  5. #45
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    Most American adult males are circumcized, so this must be new? This statistic about only half of male infants being circumsized? So this is in children?

    Really? I would think there was a lot less circumcision in Western Europe, come on now.

  6. #46
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Most American adult males are circumcized, so this must be new? This statistic about only half of male infants being circumsized? So this is in children?

    Really? I would think there was a lot less circumcision in Western Europe, come on now.
    Yeah, it's children. And you're correct, the rate is a lot lower in Europe.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    heir main website before was called 'child mutilation .com' or something. It reminds me of a stupid facebook 'conversation' on someone's wall about that male birth control that needs to be injected into a man's testicles. All the biomen immediately jumped in saying 'this is stupid, omg my poor balls, blah blah blah" and "women are so immature that they need to nag about male birth control" and basically fixated on their balls. God forbid you threaten to do anything to or even touch any part of a man's junk or HOT DAMN you are mutilating him and torturing him and also making him gay. I think a lot of it speaks to what happens when someone in a place of relative privilege - biological men who identify as men - has something that is relatively not perfect happen to them and they get fixated on it on the incredible planet shaking injustice of it all instead of looking at it in context etc. etc .etc.
    Yeah women are so immature to not want to have to be 100% responsible for birth control, especially considering especially hormonal bc can cause things like weight gain or constant "spotting."

    Yeah women are really immature to want men to shoulder some of the responsibility, namely since so many of them don't want to be daddies now-a-days.

    This kind of stuff is both lulzy and makes me want to punch people.

  8. #48
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Actually, it might be lower now than last I heard:

    http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/0...n-the-decline/

    Rates were highest between the 40s and 70s, which is why most of our cohorts are circumcised. But it's different for "kids these days." This was important to me when I was researching the topic for my own decision, because a lot of people use the "but he'll get teased in the locker room!" line of reasoning. I don't think that's likely, given the current stats. Based on discussions I've had with other parents, I don't think it's inaccurate.

  9. #49
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    I would prefer the government back off. Circumcision is standard procedure for boys, correct? I think the fact that a baby doesn't remember the procedure is a plus. I doubt being squeezed through the birth canal was a ride at the water park. I'm guessing it's the most painful tramatic experience a baby goes through. Thank God I forgot.
    So what if it were a standard procedure? That doesn't make it good. That would be an appeal to common practice.
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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    So what if it were a standard procedure? That doesn't make it good. That would be an appeal to common practice.
    Okay - check this out - the argument for it being standard procedure actually does work if the person will be seen as less "normal" because of not having the standard procedure.

    This is principally for aesthetic reasons, I would think, but it does fall within common concerns in the human experience.

    It's also standard procedure for people to get dressed in the morning before they go outside.

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