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  1. #471
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    You are all way to nice to your kids. That way they wont ever become a strong soldier and can fight for the empire. All that hippie stuff about, "I respect my child to choose for himself" is oudated. That way they wont ever become a good soldier for the german empire !!

    Edit: opps, wrong forum
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #472
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Most arguments taken to their logical extreme become flawed.

    What I'm saying is that in this instance and with this issue, that the harm done isn't worth the time and money spent trying to fight it. If they tried to do this generally in the US there would be a shit storm of epic proportions. A shit storm whose negatives would outweigh the harm done by the practice of circumcision.

    Those who've been circumcised by and large don't have any negative experience from that, and those that haven't been that want to condemn the practice seem to be trying to assuage the guilty conscience of the nation as opposed to trying to curtail any actual measurable harm done.

    There are way bigger issues than this that deserve our attention.

    People just focus on this, because it's so good at stirring the pot and getting us to argue with one another.
    You have to be careful with these things. You never know what the Supreme Court would do if it was ever presented to them.

    My biggest issue is probably with who makes the decision. I don't think females should have any say on the matter.

    Edit: I should clarify, the reason I believe females should have no say on the matter is because I believe it is wrong to force something on someone else you would not allow to be done to yourself. I believe my opinion on abortion is irrelevant.

    I can damn well know whether or not I'm happy with my life.

    What I'm trying to say is that the difference between the two states of being isn't great enough for someone to say that the practice is as barbaric as you guys claim.
    You cannot know how you would feel if you had not been circumcised. That is an undeniable fact.

    I wouldn't argue that this is one of the most important issues facing the country today, but I believe it is worth discussing. I'm not going to blow it off just because it's not as important as the something like political campaign contributions.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #473
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Is that important ? No foreskin no phimosis at all. I am no doctor you should know that, I am full of dangerous half knowledge. Wikipedia says there are primary and secondary phimosises. Primaries are from birth on and secondary can evolve thru injuries. I had a phimosis from birth on and the doctors told my parents back then that they'ld need to train the foreskin and retract it. The same my gf told me yesterday when we saw the news. My girlfriend is a nurse.
    Doctors and nurses actually give out a lot of misinformation, and just about everything you've said here is misinformative. There is nothing at all unusual about a baby's foreskin being unable to retract, it's entirely normal. Forcing it CAN cause phimosis.

    "No foreskin, no problems" isn't true either, because injuries and complications from circumcision are more common than most people think. I said before that when I was a childcare provider, I am not kidding when I say that EVERY circumcised baby boy I took care of had some kind of problem with his circumcision. Adhesions can form after a circumcision.

  4. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    That is an undeniable fact.

    I wouldn't argue that this is one of the most important issues facing the country today, but I believe it is worth discussing. I'm not going to blow it off just because it's not as important as the something like political campaign contributions.
    Yes that fact is undeniable.

    I certainly agree that it's worth discussing. Everything is worth discussing.

    What I wont agree with is condemning those that have had this practice done to their children, or those who take a less negative view of the practice.

    I take a similar view on this that I do to abortions. Abortions are fine early on, but the closer you get to pregnancy, the less reasonable an abortion becomes (in the mind of this humble observer at least).

    I'm fine with circumcision for new babies, but the older they get, and the more likely they are to have a lasting memory of the experience, the less reasonable forcing the practice on a child becomes.

    But as far as circumcisions performed on young babies are concerned, I have no problem at all with em.

  5. #475
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Doctors and nurses actually give out a lot of misinformation, and just about everything you've said here is misinformative. There is nothing at all unusual about a baby's foreskin being unable to retract, it's entirely normal. Forcing it CAN cause phimosis.

    "No foreskin, no problems" isn't true either, because injuries and complications from circumcision are more common than most people think. I said before that when I was a childcare provider, I am not kidding when I say that EVERY circumcised baby boy I took care of had some kind of problem with his circumcision. Adhesions can form after a circumcision.
    Ok so the equation is:

    Complications due to circumsision
    vs
    No circumcision but higher risk for STDs and not so good in bed

    Hmm thats a tough one. As a nerd I wouldnt need to be good but STDs are likely cause of apple pie or meat in the radiator. Hmhmhm... I'll pass !

    I respect your professional opinion, but I'll still walk over it and ignore it cause I never heard of circumsized people having any complications later one. I am living fine with my circumsision for over 20 years now and truthfully spoken I never really gave that topic much thought at all. My gf yesterday told me that she wants it for our child and that was the first time I ever thought about it. I trust my gf regarding medical experience and I dont believe she just "learnt the wrong thing in the nurse club".

    I am sorry that that is so, but I need to set my loyalities straight so that I have a decision for myself. Otherwise I'ld need to think about that topic more deeply but for that I just do not have the capacity at the moment. :/

  6. #476
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Doctors and nurses actually give out a lot of misinformation, and just about everything you've said here is misinformative. There is nothing at all unusual about a baby's foreskin being unable to retract, it's entirely normal. Forcing it CAN cause phimosis.

    "No foreskin, no problems" isn't true either, because injuries and complications from circumcision are more common than most people think. I said before that when I was a childcare provider, I am not kidding when I say that EVERY circumcised baby boy I took care of had some kind of problem with his circumcision. Adhesions can form after a circumcision.
    To be fair, maybe we can agree on this: every operation or incursion into the human body, is a risk. One must decide if its worth that risk. Even only a small injury can get infected and spread and even kill yourself. But thats no reason for me, to being afraid of things.

    Considering the risk, the circumsicision surely isnt necessary. Tho its still to be proven how many infections or how many phimosises non circumsized men have and develop. But bottom line, considering the risk, it is not necessary.

    I'ld still do it and take the risk. Cause I know from personal experience that it went well and I dont regret it, its way more fun in the underpants.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #477
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The Germans have the right to make their own decisions.
    Exactly, they should have the right to decide whether they want a part of their body permanently mutilated or not.

  8. #478
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    Exactly, they should have the right to decide whether they want a part of their body permanently mutilated or not.
    Mutilation isn't really a good word for it.

    Mutilation implies some sort of malicious intent on behalf of those performing the circumcision.

    EDIT - and that word necessarily juxtaposes the practice with clitoral removal in the 3rd world. Which isn't really fair.

  9. #479
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    A bad choice of a word on my part, I admit it was a loaded term to provoke a certain kind of reaction and I should feel bad, but it is still a case of a person's bodily autonomy being violated with lasting effects.

  10. #480
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    The question is where does parental authority to make decisions on behalf of their child end.

    And at one point that parental authority ends and becomes subservient to the bodily autonomy of the child.

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