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  1. #461
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    the funny thing is you start to argue with me about a totally different thing than what the arguement was about. The arguement is about circumcision and you imply now that we draw wisdom teeth and the appendix precautonary from people without asking them in Germany. The precautonary pulling of the appendix is a thing you can do but noone must. You definitly need the go from your doctor first as well.
    You brought up wisdom teeth and appendixes, not me. Pardon me for questioning that they were somehow relevant to this discussion.

    The thing is: why would be circumsion for boys be a humiliation ? If its for medical reasons, what exactly would be the humiliation ? If you think that way isnt then receiving a child already humiliation for the child as well ? Cause this world sucks so much, why would anyone want to do that evil to ones own child ? I mean you make so many decisions for your kid in early life, deciions it will later hate you for. But so what ? Thats part of life, someone needs to decide for you when you cant.

    And having no foreskin or having foreskin what does it really matter ? Your sex life is better, cause you can put it round all night, the smell from your pants is better, your dick looks better, you wont infect your wife and Jews call you buddy. What more can a man hope for in life ?
    I hate repeating myself. See my previous post regarding humiliation and ego.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #462
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    This is absolutely not true. Baby boys are born with their foreskins attached, and forcibly retracting it can damage the penis. It retracts itself over the course of the first few years of life, usually by 5 or 6 but sometimes not until closer to puberty. As long as he is pulling it back as far as it will *comfortably* go and cleaning all around, it will retract in its own time, with few exceptions (those exceptions being the ones that may need a medical circumcision for phimosis).
    Is that important ? No foreskin no phimosis at all. I am no doctor you should know that, I am full of dangerous half knowledge. Wikipedia says there are primary and secondary phimosises. Primaries are from birth on and secondary can evolve thru injuries. I had a phimosis from birth on and the doctors told my parents back then that they'ld need to train the foreskin and retract it. The same my gf told me yesterday when we saw the news. My girlfriend is a nurse.

    Really people, tho I am Ti I am the only global thinker here. No foreskin no problems. Thats all. I am gravely disappoint
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #463
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I heard your pretty good at Killin Nazi's...

    I'm here to see if you want to go pro.

    I enjoy the outrage because I really don't care much about the topic. I think having to go to church with your parents for years is much worse than losing your foreskin.
    I don't care much about the topic either.

    And having gone to church with my parents for years during my childhood, I can say that there are many worse fates out there.

    Different strokes for different folks.

  4. #464
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I have a question for all those who have been circumcised.

    Do you remember circumcision being some horribly traumatic experience?

    Or do you not remember it at all?

    I don't remember it at all, and also don't feel any harm has been done to me by that procedure having been performed without my consent.
    Is this really a good criteria for determining whether an act is acceptable? Whether or not you remember it? This seems like a huge loophole for all sort of bad things.

    EDIT - most importantly, my ability to enjoy sex and/or live my life has not been affected by being circumcised in the least.
    Actually, you don't know this to be true. You cannot know. No one can know unless they experienced both states as an adult.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #465
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I enjoy the outrage because I really don't care much about the topic. I thinking having to go to church with your parents for years is much worse than losing your foreskin.
    I would've gladly made the trade. Hell.. I'd trade it in if my parents had thought to save for college education, or the very least emancipate me when I was 16 so that I could qualify for grants, since I wasn't taking their money and was living at poverty level. Anyway.. I have to do some relaxation breathing now.

  6. #466
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    What this comes down to though is what value you attribute to religion (much less in Europe than in America) and what value you attribute to every individual's right to bodily integrity and bodily selfdetermination (more so in Europe than in America). The court decided that one person's religious freedom ends where another individuals rights begin. That is all.
    Excellent point, deserves to be repeated. I've typically fallen into the parents choice camp with my personal decision being that I would not circumsize my son for many of the considerations Ivy mentioned. However, I do wonder how far a concept like this should/could be taken... To end religious views where anothers body begins really does seem reasonable. It's too bad we couldn't end religion where anothers psychological well-being/rights begin, lol.. but how to determine this...
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  7. #467
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I heard your pretty good at Killin Nazi's...

    I'm here to see if you want to go pro.
    I was alluding to the branded-for-life aspect that Aldo's and victims of religious circumcision have in common. The latter often guiltlessly.

  8. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Is this really a good criteria for determining whether an act is acceptable? Whether or not you remember it? This seems like a huge loophole for all sort of bad things.
    Most arguments taken to their logical extreme become flawed.

    What I'm saying is that in this instance and with this issue, that the harm done isn't worth the time and money spent trying to fight it. If they tried to do this generally in the US there would be a shit storm of epic proportions. A shit storm whose negatives would outweigh the harm done by the practice of circumcision.

    Those who've been circumcised by and large don't have any negative experience from that, and those that haven't been that want to condemn the practice seem to be trying to assuage the guilty conscience of the nation as opposed to trying to curtail any actual measurable harm done.

    There are way bigger issues than this that deserve our attention.

    People just focus on this, because it's so good at stirring the pot and getting us to argue with one another.

    Actually, you don't know this to be true. You cannot know. No one can know unless they experienced both states as an adult.
    I can damn well know whether or not I'm happy with my life.

    What I'm trying to say is that the difference between the two states of being isn't great enough for someone to say that the practice is as barbaric as you guys claim.

  9. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I was alluding to the branded-for-life aspect that Aldo's and victims of religious circumcision have in common. The latter often guiltlessly.
    The differences between missing some skin on your penis and having a swastika carved into your forehead are massive.

    But I'm sure that fact is not lost on you.

  10. #470
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    I have a feeling that some people are making this strange connection between Circumcision and American religiosity. It may be that there is one, but it's not direct. Most people in America who have it done is just because of custom and dated ideas about hygene, and what people are used to. They're afraid their kids will be made fun of if it's done. In the majority of religions in the U.S., this is not something that is prescribed.

    I think the the largest groups of people in the US willing to buck the trend are the ones from strong Roman Catholic cultures.

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