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  1. #441
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Oh come on.

    I mean, you can say "it hurts the baby" or "a man should decide when he's older" but NO, babies don't have SOCIAL DIGNITY...their mothers change their fucking diapers, and if it really took away the security of males, we'd have a lot more insecure men walking around.

    Fine, make an argument against it, but don't use absurd, pretentious non-sense to do so, law student.
    A woman also carry her unborn baby around, we should let her get an abortion any time she wants. The unborn baby has no social dignity.

    After all, the unborn baby is feeding on her. It is a leech to a women's body.

    The unborn baby won't know that the mother ended its life.

    That is the argument I hear from people who are against abortion but for circumcision of males.

  2. #442
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Lol @ all the people without foreskin.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  3. #443
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Lol @ all the people without foreskin.
    You assume too much.

  4. #444
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    First of all, Germany has some 82 million inhabitants, 4 million of them are muslims and only 200.000 are Jews. So if anything, this policy is anti-muslim .....do you want the terrorists to win?!?


    Circumcision is only practiced by those two religious groups for religious reasons and in cases where a doctor decides it's medically necessary. To the best of my knowledge, the country does not suffer from an unusually high number of STDs.

    Most German muslims are of Turkish origin. Today, some, maybe a lot of, people in Turkey circumcize their sons at birth in the hospital. But traditionally, circumcision takes place between the ages of 4 and 12.....and , also traditionally, without anaesthesia! It is a big party and a rite of passage, they cut the kids foreskin off while he is sitting on the lab of his godfather and surrounded by family who then sing and cheer and then celebrate and give the traumatized kid a lot of candy and money gifts. If poor parents can't afford a circumcision party, a charitable rich neighbor might finance it. These are the cultural roots and this is the background of what we are currently discussing.

    What this comes down to though is what value you attribute to religion (much less in Europe than in America) and what value you attribute to every individual's right to bodily integrity and bodily selfdetermination (more so in Europe than in America). The court decided that one person's religious freedom ends where another individuals rights begin. That is all.

    Hey, why not take out every baby's appendix and tonsils at birth? You can live without them and it might help prevent appendicitis or toncillitis!
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  5. #445
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    But traditionally, circumcision takes place between the ages of 4 and 12.....and , also traditionally, without anaesthesia! It is a big party and a rite of passage, they cut the kids foreskin off while he is sitting on the lab of his godfather and surrounded by family who then sing and cheer and then celebrate and give the traumatized kid a lot of candy and money gifts.
    EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW WWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  6. #446
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Germany didnt ban circumcision, one state court made a legal decision that circumcision is a crime. Now the constitutional court will decide if that is so in fact or not.

    Imo its bullshit. You cant have freedom of religion in a country and then tell religious people what to do. Same goes for the burque thing. One should rather try and integrate those people in the society and first of all accept the things one is not happy with. To then after a few years teach them how its possible to live without burques and what damage they do to woman. So a reasonable process of learning, instead of banning everything one does not understand. Those are alwyays very difficult processes and will never be easy.

    Imo furthermore, circumcision for boys is a good thing. First of all its way more hygenical, no more "ball cheese" when you know what I mean. Second of all it drastically reduces the chance to infect woman with your p-ness. Tho I love infecting woman with my p-ness giving them STDs sucks. And besides STDs you can just give them fungal infections. Female biosphere is much more vulnerable than the male one. Another point is phimosis. When you dont retract the foreskin of your child a couple of times when its young, there is a chance that the skin will adhere. Thats called phimosis and then your kid needs to be circumsized at all costs.

    I am circumsized myself out of medical reasons. And if I get a boy I'll do the same and I'll even try and get me a Jewish circumsior cause I'ld trust him the most to make a good job.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #447
    Senor Membrae Eugene Watson VIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Lol @ all the people without foreskin.
    lolo

    I don't know who or why anyone would banhammer
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  8. #448
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Imo its bullshit. You cant have freedom of religion in a country and then tell religious people what to do. Same goes for the burque thing. One should rather try and integrate those people in the society and first of all accept the things one is not happy with. To then after a few years teach them how its possible to live without burques and what damage they do to woman. So a reasonable process of learning, instead of banning everything one does not understand. Those are alwyays very difficult processes and will never be easy.
    Circumcision is permanent. Wearing a burqa is not.

    Imo furthermore, circumcision for boys is a good thing. First of all its way more hygenical, no more "ball cheese" when you know what I mean. Second of all it drastically reduces the chance to infect woman with your p-ness. Tho I love infecting woman with my p-ness giving them STDs sucks. And besides STDs you can just give them fungal infections. Female biosphere is much more vulnerable than the male one. Another point is phimosis. When you dont retract the foreskin of your child a couple of times when its young, there is a chance that the skin will adhere. Thats called phimosis and then your kid needs to be circumsized at all costs.
    So, mutilating one sex for the benefit of the other is acceptable to you.

    I am amazed that humans survived for tens of thousands of years given how dangerous foreskins are.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #449
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Humans have survived for thousands of years as well having no dentists.

    Do you know why the wisdom tooth come so late in life ? So that humans still have functional teeth at age 30. I mean we are way past that stoneage and getting your wisdom teeth drawn out is considered by noone as humiliation. The same is with precautionary removal of the appendix. No humilation. So why would be cutting some little piece of skin be considered as humilation ? Just because its about the Penis and because its about religion.

    This a purely male ego problem thats all.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  10. #450
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Humans have survived for thousands of years as well having no dentists.

    Do you know why the wisdom tooth come so late in life ? So that humans still have functional teeth at age 30. I mean we are way past that stoneage and getting your wisdom teeth drawn out is considered by noone as humiliation. The same is with precautionary removal of the appendix. No humilation. So why would be cutting some little piece of skin be considered as humilation ? Just because its about the Penis and because its about religion.

    This a purely male ego problem thats all.
    Where did I say or imply anything about humiliation or ego?

    Do we pull wisdom teeth for the benefit of others? Do we remove appendixes for the benefit of others? Or are these body parts removed only when it is deemed to be medically necessary for the individual? I don't know how these things are handled in Germany, but in the US, wisdom teeth and appendixes are only removed when it is deemed to be medically necessary. Though, I suppose there are probably some adults who may be able to request these procedures, we're absolutely not performing these procedures on infants.

    I'm not impressed by your argument. It sounds to me like you're trying to tell men to "suck it up" and accept being mutilated (without their consent) for the benefit of women.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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