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  1. #31
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    the infant doesn't remember the pain anyway
    People can justify all sorts of stuff using this line of reasoning. Is pain only negative if it's remembered?

    When it came right down to it, I just could not bring myself to willingly make the choice to inflict pain on my kid without any payoff. It never occurred to me that it would be okay since he wouldn't remember it anyway.

  2. #32
    Senior Member MonkeyGrass's Avatar
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    Well, and what happens to us very early in life can reinforce personality traits/brain patterns in us, even if we don't actually recall the details of the incident. :P Pain with urination during the first weeks of life can make for fussy babies, as well, and can interfere with bonding. So, obviously, since infants can't talk, the emotional connection is fuzzy, but that doesn't mean proof positive that there is none.

    AFA as "ease of cleaning" goes, neither my spouse, his four brothers or any of the parents of uncircumcised boys I know have ever had issues with hygiene. Neither here nor there, I guess, though, as it pertains to this discussion.
    I think I think more than you think I think.

  3. #33
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    People can justify all sorts of stuff using this line of reasoning. Is pain only negative if it's remembered?

    When it came right down to it, I just could not bring myself to willingly make the choice to inflict pain on my kid without any payoff. It never occurred to me that it would be okay since he wouldn't remember it anyway.
    Which leads me to believe that you think your decision gives you the moral high ground.

    So by association you're saying that this decision makes you morally superior to those who choose to circumcise their kids.

    Which in turn leads me to believe that, in lieu of this decision, you think you're morally superior to my parents (if only in one small way).

    This whole thing is making a mountain out of a mole hill. If you feel strongly about it then don't circumcise your kids. But let off before you end up telling other people how to live their lives.

    Well, and what happens to us very early in life can reinforce personality traits/brain patterns in us, even if we don't actually recall the details of the incident. :P
    The operative word in this sentence being can. I wonder how frequently this actually happens, and how frequently people just shrug and go on living their lives.

  4. #34
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Yeah that "ease of cleaning" thing is pretty much nonsense. For babies, it's far easier to care for an uncircumcised penis than a circumcised one, since caring for a circumcised baby penis involves wound care. One reason we decided not to circumcise our son was that I was a nanny before we had him, and I kid you not, EVERY baby boy that I cared for came to me with special instructions on penis care because they had some kind of complication from the circumcisions. Those poor little dudes and their red wangs had a pretty strong impact on me- I didn't want my kid to have to deal with that. So we didn't.

    Even for adults, "ease of cleaning" is kind of a joke- it's a matter of pulling back some skin and washing underneath it, takes literally like a second or two. You have to wash your junk either way.

  5. #35
    Senior Member MonkeyGrass's Avatar
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    Yowch!
    I think I think more than you think I think.

  6. #36
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Yeah. The worst was this little guy who just cried big fat tears every time he peed. So heart-wrenching.

    and no, Disco, I don't think I'm better than his parents or yours, so slow your roll. We're allowed to have an opinion about this.

  7. #37
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    If I've reacted too strongly sorry.

    I just seems that every time I turn around on this site, people are being made out to be attila the frigging hun for decisions that I myself may make one day.

    Like a bunch of small things leading to one large reaction.

    I may just need to find a new place with more like minded people.

  8. #38
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Calm yourself, Beavis. Nobody is attacking you personally by having an opinion about something you might do someday.

    And anyway, maybe it would be a good idea to look at the issue from all sides before you're a parent? I know that at one time I figured I'd circumcise any sons I had, because it's just how my family does things. But once I started looking at it critically, I changed my mind. It's not an indictment of my parents (they circumcised both my brothers) or my husband's parents to make a different decision, even one I feel strongly about. I still think they're all great people who did a great job as parents. I don't spank my kids either, and I feel pretty strongly about it, but it's not like I feel I was abused or anything silly like that because my parents spanked me. I've just made a different choice.

    The thing that gets me is when misinformation is presented as fact. I'm all for people making well-informed decisions that are different from the ones I'd make, but when the facts that are presented are out-of-date or old wives' tales... I gotta speak up, man.

  9. #39
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Circumcision is totally pointless and can potentially create complications. It's also technically unpermitted, permanent mutilation, so that's kind of weird too.

    I don't see a problem with banning it.
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  10. #40
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    If I've reacted too strongly sorry.

    I just seems that every time I turn around on this site, people are being made out to be attila the frigging hun for decisions that I myself may make one day.

    Like a bunch of small things leading to one large reaction.

    I may just need to find a new place with more like minded people.
    I'm neither for or against circumcision. And I'd outright say that this ballot tries to go too far.

    But someone has to make the choice to do circumcision or not. It is just my POV that I think the kid should have some say when he grows up. But if a parent wants to circumcise their kids, that is that.

    But then again, this topic is making me think of the whole "innie" and "outtie" belly buttons.

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