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  1. #371
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    disfigure
    Wow I didn't know that this could also mean - make more aesthetically pleasing.

    make imperfect by excising or altering parts
    To make easier to clean.

    So would you also call fixing a child's hairlip mutilation?

    injure by maltreatment
    I see no injury or maltreatment.

    Ownership over one's body
    Decisions made before the child had the requisite mental capacity to take ownership of anything, have actively deprived the child of nothing.

    If this topic was a person, I'd go to war with it with bottles and chains.

  2. #372
    Senior Member Meek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snail View Post
    mu·ti·late (mytl-t)
    tr.v. mu·ti·lat·ed, mu·ti·lat·ing, mu·ti·lates
    1. To deprive of a limb or an essential part; cripple.
    2. To disfigure by damaging irreparably: mutilate a statue. See Synonyms at batter1.
    3. To make imperfect by excising or altering parts.


    a·buse (-byz)
    tr.v. a·bused, a·bus·ing, a·bus·es
    1. To use wrongly or improperly; misuse: abuse alcohol; abuse a privilege.
    2. To hurt or injure by maltreatment; ill-use.
    3. To force sexual activity on; rape or molest.
    4. To assail with contemptuous, coarse, or insulting words; revile.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children's_rights
    I think that children in this instance, should have a choice due to the extreme measures of this type of procedure.
    It's also not comparable to accidentally bumping into someone in an elevator. LOL. Silly.

    This seems like a definition a moron would confuse. An example would be; "Love hurts" When love has a different definition than Hate. Therefor, Hate hurts. It goes for Spanking children, too. When parents say "Spanking kids is out of love" When clearly, spanking is out of aggression and is a form of hitting and hitting is a form of violence and only hatred is a form of violence. Not love.

    Same applies for genital mutilation for babies. It's not a form of love when you force a decision the child is unable to make. It's not like keeping the kid from hurting it's self, it's actually allowing the child to be hurt without his/her consent. What if the child grows up not liking the choice their parents made for them? Being unhappy with the outcome. I don't think I would enjoy knowing that my parents let some jerk snip my clitoris as a baby.

  3. #373
    Senior Member Meek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    You're fantastic.
    Thanks!

  4. #374
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    When parents say "Spanking kids is out of love" When clearly, spanking is out of aggression and is a form of hitting and hitting is a form of violence and only hatred is a form of violence.
    Well... if this is the kind of mental back drop you guys are coming from, I won't continue to waste my breath.

    Enjoy coddling your children out of the ability to deal with anything.

  5. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Enjoy coddling your children out of the ability to deal with the harsh realities of life.
    Haven't you repeatedly said that no one should question how others choose to parent their children? Does that only apply to people who parent the way you would or your parents did? Are you not looking down your nose at people who choose not to spank their children?

  6. #376
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    To make easier to clean.
    To clean what on an infant exactly? His urine? The last time I remember, the most you have to clean is the shitty area on the baby,
    not where he pees. It's a lot easier to clean a baby's genitals than it is to clean the back side. Cut or uncut.


    So would you also call fixing a child's hairlip mutilation?
    My boyfriend actually had a cleft palate when he was born and he was going to die without the operation.
    He couldn't even eat properly and would easily spit his food out often. He was under weight and desperately needed the surgery.

    You are comparing an operation that has to be performed when the child is a baby, to something that is not even necessary for children.
    If they do not get cut, they will not die.



    I see no injury or maltreatment.
    I see it like it's a lobotomy on patients who didn't even need it.



    Decisions made before the child had the requisite mental capacity to take ownership of anything, have actively deprived the child of nothing.
    Which means the child is deprived of taking ownership of his right to have his penis cut or not. Apparently a shit load was deprived, then.

  7. #377
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    Haven't you repeatedly said that no one should question how others choose to parent their children? Does that only apply to people who parent the way you would or your parents did? Are you not looking down your nose at people who choose not to spank their children?
    No, I'm the one who said others have no right to force others to raise their kids a certain way.

    Here I'm telling them to enjoy the spoiled fruits of their labor.

    I'm only returning the favor in the looking down my nose department.

  8. #378
    Senior Member Snail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Wow I didn't know that this could also mean - make more aesthetically pleasing.



    To make easier to clean.

    So would you also call fixing a child's hairlip mutilation?



    I see no injury or maltreatment.



    Decisions made before the child had the requisite mental capacity to take ownership of anything, have actively deprived the child of nothing.

    If this topic was a person, I'd go to war with it with bottles and chains.
    Aesthetic preferences are subjective, and largely culturally influenced. There are plenty of barbaric customs that stem from a desire to make people more aesthetically pleasing out of conformity to traditional notions of beauty. If tattoos, piercings, lip plates, breast implants or branding were required in order for someone to be seen as visually acceptable, would you subject your child to such procedures before s/he is old enough to decide their value?

    The circumcised penis requires more care than the natural penis during the first three years of life, according to a report in the British Journal of Urology. The clinical findings of an American pediatrician showed that circumcised boys were significantly more likely to have skin adhesions, trapped debris, irritated urinary opening, and inflammation of the glans (head of the penis) than were boys with a foreskin. Furthermore, because there are large variations of appearance in circumcised boys, circumcision for cosmetic reasons should be discouraged.
    Van Howe, R., "Variability in Penile Appearance and Penile Findings: A Prospective Study," BJU 80 (1997): 776–782.
    I don't like having to clean between my toes, but that doesn't mean I wish my parents had cut them off of me when I was an infant. Laziness is not an excuse, especially since there are conflicting views about whether the hygiene issue is even based on fact.

    There is a huge difference between performing unnecessary cosmetic surgery on healthy infants for purely visual reasons, and correcting a deformity that will alter the child's ability to function and communicate. The foreskin is not a deformity.

    If you don't consider cutting off useful body parts injury, we use a different definition.

    Definition of INJURY

    1
    a : an act that damages or hurts : wrong
    b : violation of another's rights for which the law allows an action to recover damages
    2
    : hurt, damage, or loss sustained

  9. #379
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    No, I'm the one who said others have no right to force others to raise their kids a certain way.

    Here I'm telling them to enjoy the spoiled fruits of their labor.

    I'm only returning the favor in the looking down my nose department.
    Having an opinion about a parenting style or practice is forcing others to raise their kids a certain way? You also have an opinion about parenting styles or practices- why doesn't that apply to you?

    I don't care if you do, it's absolutely your right to hold any opinion you like. But I did want to point out your logical inconsistency. You've repeatedly gone to a really angry and emotional place over an impersonal debate, and now you're making it personal. This and many other topics would be much easier to discuss without this kind of personalization.

  10. #380
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    "A man with a conviction is a hard man to change. Tell him you disagree and he turns away. Show him facts or figures and he questions your sources. Appeal to logic and he fails to see your point." - Leon Festinger.

    Motivated reasoning and all that.

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