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  1. #301
    Senior Member Agent Jelly's Avatar
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    this debate is really amusing to watch. I'm gonna tattoo my baby red all over and pierce her ears 15x on each. Thanks guys!

  2. #302
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    Move on to another punishment when they're old enough to realize that screaming is uncivilized. lol

    But I read somewhere (Google it, I'm too lazy to) that people are born with an ingrained fear of sudden loud noise. Theoretically, before a child is cognizant of the actual situation (mommy's just a psycho bitch who forgot her happy pill), a parent could take advantage of this, since it's virtually guaranteed to at least have an impact on the kid. Whether the kid connects the wrongdoing with the screaming for future reference is another matter, though.

    And I don't know if it involves long term trauma, I don't have kids and I don't plan on ever having any.
    it's true, but the idea isn't to scare the child. the idea is to disincentivize. if you do X, you get punishment Y; if you do A, you get reward B. screaming makes the child either
    a) think you're an idiot
    b) think that you hate them
    c) become completely confused
    d) become afraid or you and/or
    e) completely ignore you
    the idea of reward punishment is a system of incentives where they are encouraged to do good things and discouraged from doing bad things. you do want some amount of fear, but you want them to be afraid of doing the bad behavior, not afraid of you. screaming parents is one reason why I think lots of american teenagers are like "I hate my parents". I'm not as cultured as I'd like to be, but from what I've heard, America is rather unusual in this respect.

    I'm actually a fan of reward based learning when possible if it's something you can keep rewarding. the trouble is when you take away the reward and the child retaliates and thinks you're being unfair. for instance, buying a child a 3 dollar pack of pokemon cards for cleaning a room in the house is pretty sustainable, taking them out to dinner every time they brush their teeth is not
    PS: we're actually getting along better now btw, they've learned that they actually need to communicate with me if they want some sort of result lol
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  3. #303
    figsfiggyfigs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Yes, female circumcision often involves the clitoris, and apparently sometimes they SEW THE HOLE SHUT!!???
    fakjskjahsdkjhfkwjheknxic <shivers>


    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    holy sssshit! most feminist arguments about women being oppressed are total BS, but this is VERY oppressive, my Fi reading is off the charts with this topic in particular

    You seriously didn't know any of this?



    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    But it makes the penis sooooooo aestethically pleasing!!112121
    Actually, yes, a lot of females(including myself) find the circumcised penis to be more aesthetically pleasing than it's opposite.

  4. #304
    Senior Member Agent Jelly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YWIR View Post
    Actually, yes, a lot of females(including myself) find the circumcised penis to be more aesthetically pleasing than it's opposite.
    You mean you don't like pigs in a blanket?!

  5. #305
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YWIR View Post
    Actually, yes, a lot of females(including myself) find the circumcised penis to be more aesthetically pleasing than it's opposite.
    A lot? How many all over the world, given that the greeeatest majority of countries don't have circumcision as tradition? Perhaps 0.00001 % of the whole female population ?
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  6. #306
    figsfiggyfigs
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    A lot? How many all over the world, given that the greeeatest majority of countries don't have circumcision as tradition? Perhaps 0.00001 % of the whole female population ?
    You're kidding right? Circumcision is quite common(in those areas--females are more likely to find the circumcised penis to be the ideal). Europe and central/south america are among the few places that circumcision is not common.

    Lets pretend that the female population on typoC represents that of the entire world's, given that it's quite a diverse group. Looking back at their post history in regards to the subject matter, it doesn't look like only 0.00001% are pro-circumcision( aesthetically). I could possibly be wrong, but I doubt it. It would be interesting to have a poll(in regards to aesthetics, and not the act of circumcision itself).

    Given the small percentage you supply, and the demographic that selects circumcision as a routine procedure for male infants( and even adults) as a norm, saying 0.0001% prefer uncircumcised(visually) is absurd.


    (Keep in mind population density--for fairness sake), and even then, this doesn't look like 0.00001% percent.

    Facts are facts. Some females( especially from countries where %Circumcised > %Uncircumcised) are going to find the circumcised penis more aesthetically pleasing than its counterpart. And it will be a large percent--because that is what they're used to. There are plenty of females(from those areas as well), who find both aesthetically similar. Saying that a dominate population of a group likes A, does not mean the entire population likes A. Some might like B. Some might like both, or none.

  7. #307
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    First of all, circumcised men are in the minority. That is undisputed. It is hard to estimate how many are circumcised, but apparently 30% is a good guess, 15-40% being the range, the majority of which are Muslim.

    Second, developed nation's medical organisations do not recommend routine circumcision. That is because there are no health benefits in developed countries, yet a few risks and some disputed evidence of various negative side-effects (which wikipedia sums up quite nicely).

    Thirdly, it is difficult to tell the difference between circumcised and uncircumcised penises when they are erect. It's especially confusing when considering some circumcisions take off only part of the skin, and that very same part can sometimes be lacking in men naturally (meaning the only difference flaccid or erect will be a scar, and that can be very faint).

    As for the OP, since it is the US, they need to avoid constitutional debate if they want it to pass. In some other developed countries less power is given to the religious, so it would stand a better chance of passing (but in contrast, less circumcision is performed, so there's less motivation for a ban from those strongly against male circumcision).

    Also, "there are other/bigger problems" or something to that effect, is a faulty line of reasoning. It dismisses all but the most dramatic of problems, when clearly many people want those smaller problems to be addressed, and it will not hinder the ability to solve those greater problems in doing so. Plus how great a problem is, is subjective.

  8. #308
    Senior Member Agent Jelly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    First of all, circumcised men are in the minority. That is undisputed. It is hard to estimate how many are circumcised, but apparently 30% is a good guess, 15-40% being the range, the majority of which are Muslim.

    Second, developed nation's medical organisations do not recommend routine circumcision. That is because there are no health benefits in developed countries, yet a few risks and some disputed evidence of various negative side-effects (which wikipedia sums up quite nicely).

    Thirdly, it is difficult to tell the difference between circumcised and uncircumcised penises when they are erect. It's especially confusing when considering some circumcisions take off only part of the skin, and that very same part can sometimes be lacking in men naturally (meaning the only difference flaccid or erect will be a scar, and that can be very faint).

    As for the OP, since it is the US, they need to avoid constitutional debate if they want it to pass. In some other developed countries less power is given to the religious, so it would stand a better chance of passing (but in contrast, less circumcision is performed, so there's less motivation for a ban from those strongly against male circumcision).

    Also, "there are other/bigger problems" or something to that effect, is a faulty line of reasoning. It dismisses all but the most dramatic of problems, when clearly many people want those smaller problems to be addressed, and it will not hinder the ability to solve those greater problems in doing so. Plus how great a problem is, is subjective.
    There may be bigger problems but I guess the reason I would be most concerned is... whats next? what are they going to tell people they can't do next? I don't like my freedom being taken away.

  9. #309
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YWIR View Post
    Actually, yes, a lot of females(including myself) find the circumcised penis to be more aesthetically pleasing than it's opposite.
    Actually, a lot of females(including myself) find the uncircumcised penis to be more aesthetically pleasing than it's opposite

    (although really, there isn't much of a difference)
    -end of thread-

  10. #310
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    ^ Yea but I bet you're in the minority here in the good ole US of A.

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