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  1. #11
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    Yea my folks have been there a bunch of times and have really enjoyed it.

    Great food and wine scene, and the music there is nothing to scoff at either.

    The only thing I have a problem with is the attitude of "I know whats better for you or your family than you do". I hate it whether it's coming from a liberal, a conservative, the gov't, or whoever.

    I'm with Jenn on the whole rigidity thing as well.

  2. #12
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    But it still kicks ass! I love it.
    Yeah, aside from the political landscape, I'd love to visit.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #13
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    It's a medical procedure that is only sometimes necessary. I am not a fan of routine infant circumcision at all. But like abortion, which I am also not a fan of but want to remain legal because it should be a medical decision between a woman and her doctor, I would not want the government to get involved in what should be a decision between parents and doctors. About religious circumcision, I am torn. Part of me believes that if you want to modify your own weenie for the Lord, go right ahead, and let your sons make that decision for themselves when they are old enough. But I know it's more complicated than that, and although it doesn't really sit right with me, I guess I don't think it's harmful enough to violate religious freedom for. (Female circumcision, on the other hand, is.)

    A couple rebuttals to points made here that I'd just like to put out there for consideration:

    --In the West there's no real "health" reason to do it to every male baby at birth. http://aappolicy.aappublications.org...rics;103/3/686
    --One big difference between circumcision and abortion is that the baby is born and separate from the mother at the time of circumcision, so there's no controversy about whose body is being adapted.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Idealist View Post
    Also, isn't San Francisco a highly liberal and tolerant city?
    Liberal, yes. Tolerant? Ehh. They're tolerant in the same way that some people only find you open-minded if you happen to agree with them, as if a full opening of your mind would inevitably lead you to adopt their beliefs. I think that left and right politics are like a circle, not a spectrum. Extreme left and extreme right meet again on the other side, and that's kind of where San Francisco is going.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

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  5. #15
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    I have mixed feelings about circumcision and I said in another thread if I had a baby and he was a boy, I'd much rather the father tell me what he thought was best, since he also has a penis.

    This seems like it's discrimination against Jewish people, in particular, because it's part of their religious custom. But on the other hand, some people see all circumcision as a brutal, unnecessary act.

    I could see perhaps publicly advocating for people to not necessarily consider circumcision as a first option, like perhaps encouraging people away from automatically circumcising their infant sons, but still keeping it as a legal option.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    Liberal, yes. Tolerant? Ehh. They're tolerant in the same way that some people only find you open-minded if you happen to agree with them, as if a full opening of your mind would inevitably lead you to adopt their beliefs. I think that left and right politics are like a circle, not a spectrum. Extreme left and extreme right meet again on the other side, and that's kind of where San Francisco is going.
    I totally think this too.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burning Rave View Post
    It was all meals that did not meet a certain nutritional standard, it just so happens practically all of the Happy Meals did not meet that standard.

    But I mean, you can just drive to Oakland if you were that desperate for a Happy Meal toy.

    And I believe it passed. I'm not a SF native (not even a bay native,) but I like going there from time to time.
    You know what? This is libertarian (err..libertarian socialist, not anarcho-capitalist libertarian) rather than liberal. Maybe San Francisco should be allowed to have its own laws.

    Now that I think about it, the whole damn country should be that way, states and cities should be able to differ on these matters as they see fit. That way, as a United States citizen, you could still move to a part of the country with laws that made you feel comfortable.

  8. #18
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    @marm

    If that were so we would cease, for all intents and purposes, to be a country.

    We would, once again, be a confederation of states.

    I agree that the states should have more power to decide whats Kosher within their borders than they do now, but only a little more.

    Also, how is that libertarian? (regarding the limited menu in SF Mickey D's)

    Libertarians are all about personal freedom, how is limiting a certain restaurant's offerings conducive to freedom?

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Also, how is that libertarian? (regarding the limited menu in SF Mickey D's)
    I think marm is stating that the way that I am thinking right now is something of a libertarian, at least for this case it seems like it. If you really want a happy meal toy, go ahead, drive to neighboring Oakland, no one is stopping you except if you are in SF. Which essentially is libertarian because the laws in Oakland isn't an exact replica of SF when it comes to kids meals that come with toys. If it was "anti" - libertarian, a law would of been enacted in the state level which would effect every Californian.

    This affects the businesses, like McDs, in SF... but the people could choose to drive to Oakland for a Happy Meal.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    @marm

    If that were so we would cease, for all intents and purposes, to be a country.

    We would, once again, be a confederation of states.

    I agree that the states should have more power to decide whats Kosher within their borders than they do now, but only a little more.

    Also, how is that libertarian? (regarding the limited menu in SF Mickey D's)

    Libertarians are all about personal freedom, how is limiting a certain restaurant's offerings conducive to freedom?
    You must think right libertarianism and left libertarianism are the same thing. Only right libertarians believe businesses or corporations have the right to do whatever they want as long as people can pay for it.

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