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  1. #31
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I'm trying to recall if anything Pelosi wanted was as radical as Paul Ryan's budget

    The key difference is that the Democratic conspiracy theorists are still in the political fringe.
    1.) I consider the record-setting deficits and attempt to vastly increase government spending as a percentage of GDP to be quite radical.

    2.) I suspect that Birthers will be as fringe once Obama is out of office as Truthers are now.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    I think your incorrectly identifying the Tea Party. Sensationalist media likes to portray ALL Tea Party members as gun toting, rich, white, male, homophobic, racist, misogynist, anti-government, uneducated, fear mongering, Christian-fundamentalist, hateful, redneck crackpots. Yet gallup polls and other studies reveal a different picture. According to reports, the biggest factor amongst Tea Party members is an opposition to Obama-Care (12% are still for it) and a support for Pro-life (though 26% are pro-choice). You could break the other stances down further.. but you'd find a good chunk of people (43% independent and 8% democratic) that do not have extremist stances on things like gay marriage, religion, etc. I travel all over the country for my job.. and know for a fact that there is quite a bit of diversity, yes, diversity, within the Tea Party movement. Many socially liberal, fiscally conservative supporters. Anybody can pick out a few key extremists and compare their idealogy to something like Pakistan or Cuba, or whatever. If you can't distinguish the reality of the movement beyond this.. then I see why your being accused of "trolling".
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  3. #33
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    You mean the governors and members of the House of Representatives and Senate we mentioned who've never held major office? Does major office only mean Speaker of the House, Majority Leader or President?

    And if between Palin and a handful of non-politician polemic opinion-leaders like Limbaugh, Beck or others you think that's definitely not true. These people get way more press than Boehners or Huntsmans. Look at what happened to Newt Gingrinch a couple weeks back when he said something against the Ryan plan. Farther right people tore him apart and he had readjust his opinion just days later (even claiming that "any ad that quotes what I said (Repeat: WHAT I SAID) Sunday is a falsehood"). There's Republican Senators claiming 90% of planned parenthood is for abortions, and people were genuinely scared of death panels during the healthcare debates. These crazies have a lot of pull.
    And it's clear that this is actually influencing the decisions of so-called reasonable Republican politicians like Boehner. Let's remember that this guy was in office during the whole Contract with America thing. He's been shuffling right just like everyone else. Either he's afraid not to, or he always wished he could do this and now sees an opportunity. I don't which it is.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #34
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  5. #35
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I mean they play a substantive role in developing the policy of the party.

    What members of the Senate?
    Well, I'd say Rand Paul springs to mind. He opposes the Americans with Disabilities Act, thinks that the Civil Rights bill disallowing restuarants from denying service to blacks was anti-First Amendment, thinks that Obama taking BP to task for the Gulf spill was "un-American" and was "anti-business" because "accidents happen." So I guess prosecuting vehicular homicides is "un-American."

    Or Newt, who's now a major Presidential contender and former speaker of the house, coming out with the idea that Obama is "so outside our comprehension that only if you understand Kenyan, anticolonial behavior can you begin to piece [him] together." Or that the Obama administration and the "secular-socialist machine" are as "great a threat to America as Nazi Germany and Soviet Union," and as I mentioned running scared after getting tarred and feathered for having any criticism of the Ryan plan at all, despite the fact it is absurd (voucher programs leaving the old to fend for themselves after a paltry few thousand dollars while increasing the already record low tax rate for the rich, a plan that claims it can reach 2% unemployment, something that has never happened in the history of the nation and is almost universally regarded as economically impossible).

    All of this, by the way, is more extreme than he was 15 years ago (you know, when he was proposing mostly business-friendly mandates for healthcare, not unlike Obama, to keep away from "Hillarycare"). Could it be because he has to keep up with an increasingly extreme Republican party? This guy isn't a political sap. He's a former Speaker of the House. But he knows which way the wind is blowing in the Republican party.

    Oh, and by the way, the only reaction from Boehner on the Birther thing was "I take him at his word". Not "Yes, he was born in the US." Non-committal at best.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  6. #36
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    who's now a major Presidential contender

  7. #37
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  8. #38
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I mean they play a substantive role in developing the policy of the party.

    What members of the Senate?
    That would be John Kyl, junior senator of Arizona.
    Google him and something like planned parenthood or 90% abortions.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    None of the people you mentioned play a formative role in developing party policy.

    What committees are Bachman and palin on right now?

    How are they shaping the political debate where it counts in the halls of power.

    They aren't.
    They clearly are, because most Republicans who are in a significant position of power or are candidates for such positions have noticeable been changing their positions to appease the the extreme element of the party. They've been turning back previous support on the health care plan and environmental regulation policies, becoming increasingly strict and demanding about their budget policies, and even backing away from their stances on evolution and crap like that. Look it up. Whether it's true or not, the Republican mainstream certainly seems to believe people like Rush and Beck have been changing the tides.
    [/QUOTE]

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    1.) I consider the record-setting deficits and attempt to vastly increase government spending as a percentage of GDP to be quite radical.
    This should mean you consider George Bush and the people who supported his policies radical since he took us from a huge surplus into the major debt to begin with. Do you consider those people radicals?

    To make what I believe is the largest spending cut in history, while making a big cut in taxes for the wealthy when it is already historically and globally low, is a remarkable combination. To do that amidst both a recession and a massive debt problem (the tax cuts don't add up with wanting to cut the debt), is ludicrous.

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    2.) I suspect that Birthers will be as fringe once Obama is out of office as Truthers are now.
    Too late. Birthers have currently already been more important than truthers ever were during Bush's presidency.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    I think your incorrectly identifying the Tea Party. Sensationalist media likes to portray ALL Tea Party members as gun toting, rich, white, male, homophobic, racist, misogynist, anti-government, uneducated, fear mongering, Christian-fundamentalist, hateful, redneck crackpots. Yet gallup polls and other studies reveal a different picture. According to reports, the biggest factor amongst Tea Party members is an opposition to Obama-Care (12% are still for it) and a support for Pro-life (though 26% are pro-choice). You could break the other stances down further.. but you'd find a good chunk of people (43% independent and 8% democratic) that do not have extremist stances on things like gay marriage, religion, etc. I travel all over the country for my job.. and know for a fact that there is quite a bit of diversity, yes, diversity, within the Tea Party movement. Many socially liberal, fiscally conservative supporters. Anybody can pick out a few key extremists and compare their idealogy to something like Pakistan or Cuba, or whatever. If you can't distinguish the reality of the movement beyond this.. then I see why your being accused of "trolling".
    So you're saying not all of them are. Of course not. But how many of them are? I'm tired of this argument for a very simple reason. Every time you have so malignant uprising in history, it is driven by a minority of extremists who happen to move the masses just as much as necessary. Do you think the Jacobins, Bolsheviks, or Nazis represented the norm in their nations at the time? And don't give me feigned outrage about me making the comparison, as that would be missing the point. The point is that insurgent political movements are usually mobilized and guided by the most extreme members, not the moderates. To consider the extremists an insignificant fringe is the discount history and sociology.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  9. #39
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    Chromosomal deficiencies have made themselves apparent.

    Later Gators.

  10. #40
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Fine. I'll grant you he's fourth. Fourth most popular Republican, announced or no, to run for President in the nation (only barring people who definitely won't run).

    http://www.politico.com/2012-electio...dential-polls/

    Sarah Palin is SECOND. You know, of no consequence to the party Palin.

    And toss on the fact that Ron Paul will never ever get out of the Republican primaries. Wants to legalize heroin? Reduce defense spending? Yeah, I think we can count him out.




    I refer to my previous picture for how you've been arguing for pages. It's all "My previous post!", sarcasm without facts to back it up, pictures, emoticons and ad hominem.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

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