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  1. #21
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    Nancy Pelosi is no Michelle Bachmann
    Matter of opinion and perspective.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    The same could be said for the old Democratic Leadership Council Democrats and the modern Democratic party under Pelosi and the dominant progressive wing of the party. And let's not forget the Truther element, which was worse than any Birther nonsense. Neither party has a particular edge regarding the primacy of its 'nut-job extremist' contigent.
    I disagree. The Truthers and the Birthers aren't comparable in any sense, other than being wrong. First, Truthers are viewed as liberals/Democrats only because GWB was in office at the time and they were his opponents - conservatism has at least as much of a traditional suspicion of institutions as liberalism. Second, the Birther movement is was actually supported by Republican state and federal officeholders. Find me one senator or representative that supports the Truthers. I'm no Democrat, but at least they disavow the nutjobs that try to align with them. The Republicans anoint them.

    Also, what would Goldwater Republicans find so objectionable about the tea parties, except insofar as they correlate with Evangelicals and conspiracy theorists? They have by and large emphasized federalism, respect for the Constitution and Founding principles, and economic issues. Do you think Goldwater would have hated Paul Ryan?
    Goldwater would have hated quite a bit about the Tea Party. First of all, he hated the creeping influence of the religious right into the Republican Party. He was pro-choice. He was one of the earliest advocates of gay rights. And he was a champion of consensus even if it meant his party took a hit sometimes. That's a concept that Tea Partiers can't even wrap their heads around. And this last bit is only personal opinion, but I also think he would have hated the way the Tea Party has accelerated the devolution of political discourse with its poorly thought out demagoguery and its casual relationship with historical facts.
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  3. #23
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Matter of opinion and perspective.
    It's also a matter of opinion and perspective to say having AIDs sucks. What's your point?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #24
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    That you guys are being pretty effing ridiculous.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    That you guys are being pretty effing ridiculous.
    The Pakistan comparison I agree is hyperbolic, but you honestly think Pelosi is as crazy as Bachmann? I think that's absurd. Pelosi is far from perfect, I'll admit, but Bachmann is actively divorced from the truth and slings the craziest slander I've ever heard:

    "Carbon dioxide is portrayed as harmful. But there isn't even one study that can be produced that shows that carbon dioxide is a harmful gas." -Rep. Michelle Bachmann

    "I find it interesting that it was back in the 1970s that the swine flu broke out under another, then under another Democrat president, Jimmy Carter. I'm not blaming this on President Obama, I just think it's an interesting coincidence." -Rep. Michele Bachmann

    "There are hundreds and hundreds of scientists, many of them holding Nobel Prizes, who believe in intelligent design." -Rep. Michele Bachmann

    "Iran is the trouble maker, trying to tip over apple carts all over Baghdad right now because they want America to pull out. And do you know why? It's because they've already decided that they're going to partition Iraq" -Bachmann, sans evidence

    Bachmann claims the Constitution only requires her to tell the census "how many people are in our home.", which is patently untrue, and implied it was an attempt at some kind of spying by the Obama administration to conduct the 2010 census.

    "One. That's the number of new drilling permits under the Obama administration since they came into office." -Bachmann, empirically bullshit

    “It isn’t that some gay will get some rights. It’s that everyone else in our state will lose rights. For instance, parents will lose the right to protect and direct the upbringing of their children. Because our K-12 public school system, of which ninety per cent of all youth are in the public school system, they will be required to learn that homosexuality is normal, equal and perhaps you should try it. And that will occur immediately, that all schools will begin teaching homosexuality.” -- Senator Michele Bachmann

    "The sex curriculum will be essentially by taught by the local gay community.” — Senator Michele Bachmann

    “Tax-free zones are meant to be the catalyst to put the final nail in this system to have a state-planned economy.” — Senator Michele Bachmann, on Tim Pawlenty (R)'s Tax-Free zone policies

    "I am convinced in my heart and in my mind that if the United States fails to stand with Israel, that is the end of the United States" -Sen. Bachmann

    And just to be fair, let's compare Pelosi's politifact page, which isn't even that hot:

    http://www.politifact.com/personalities/nancy-pelosi/

    To Bachmann's, who has maybe the worst record of any elected official on the site:

    http://www.politifact.com/personalit...hele-bachmann/


    She's also one of those people who claims the other side hates America and is anti-American and all that arrogant, self-righteous bullshit that shouldn't come from anyone on either side.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  6. #26
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Look, even Kristoff goes on to back-pedal in his own article that the Pakistan comparison is only the ultimate destination, and even then the USA could never be exactly like Pakistan. But by-and-by, he is right that the triangle of low taxes, low spending, and low regulation leads to a very disorderly, licentious society. An empire of rotting slums with a few luxurious backyards. And he is right that in the midsts of this, the effort to maintain a powerful military is hard to interpret as anything other than the maintenance of power or the appeasement of powerful factions at the expense of social welfare.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  7. #27
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    you honestly think Pelosi is as crazy as Bachmann
    No I frigging don't.

    The problem is that all the folks you people have mentioned, have played and continue to play *bleeping* ancillary roles with in the republican party.

    Bachman represents the 6th frigging district of Minnesota.

    Palin was just Governor of Alaska, and will NEVER win a Republican nomination in the primary.

    Every example you have used plays no major role in the party. The only reason they have as much of a voice as they do, is that Fox News and the rest of the media machine loves a crazy and have given these people their respective soapboxes.

    I think John Boehner is a more reasonable representative of conservative politics than Pelosi is of liberal politics.

    None of the people you have mentioned will ever hold major office, and will never be major contributors to the policy of the party.

    Get real.

  8. #28
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    I disagree. The Truthers and the Birthers aren't comparable in any sense, other than being wrong. First, Truthers are viewed as liberals/Democrats only because GWB was in office at the time and they were his opponents - conservatism has at least as much of a traditional suspicion of institutions as liberalism. Second, the Birther movement is was actually supported by Republican state and federal officeholders. Find me one senator or representative that supports the Truthers. I'm no Democrat, but at least they disavow the nutjobs that try to align with them. The Republicans anoint them.
    First of all, 'truthers' disproportionately identified as Democrat, not just Bush opponents:

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...cks_in_advance

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmi...Bush_knew.html

    Second, the Truthers and Birthers have both been tolerated rather than promoted by the national parties; the only prominent 'Republican' I can think of to advocate Birtherism is Trump, a narcissistic publicity hound with a history of supporting Democrats. As for Representatives that supported the Truthers, there is my former Representative Cynthia McKinney, who is currently busy supporting Ghadaffi. Most of the rest simply tolerated and exploited the Truthers for political gain or to avoid political embarassment.

  9. #29
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post

    None of the people you have mentioned will never hold major office, and will never be major contributors to the policy of the party.
    You mean the governors and members of the House of Representatives and Senate we mentioned who've never held major office? Does major office only mean Speaker of the House, Majority Leader or President?

    And if between Palin and a handful of non-politician polemic opinion-leaders like Limbaugh, Beck or others you think that's definitely not true. These people get way more press than Boehners or Huntsmans. Look at what happened to Newt Gingrinch a couple weeks back when he said something against the Ryan plan. Farther right people tore him apart and he had readjust his opinion just days later (even claiming that "any ad that quotes what I said (Repeat: WHAT I SAID) Sunday is a falsehood"). There's Republican Senators claiming 90% of planned parenthood is for abortions, and people were genuinely scared of death panels during the healthcare debates. These crazies have a lot of pull.

    lowtech redneck: Here are ELECTED REPUBLICANS ON THE HILL replying to Birthers. They're terrified to just say "yes, he was born here." I think it's crazy to say the tea party fringe hasn't put the fear of God in a lot of more moderate Republicans

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqEf4...eature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC12y...eature=related
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  10. #30
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    I mean they play a substantive role in developing the policy of the party.

    What members of the Senate?

    Representatives are a dime a dozen and just as replaceable.

    None of the people you mentioned play a formative role in developing party policy.

    What committees are Bachman and palin on right now?

    How are they shaping the political debate where it counts in the halls of power.

    They aren't.

    They're just given voice by the media, and small portions of the voting public respond accordingly.

    Ya'll couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with these arguments.

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