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  1. #1
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Default Why are we still fighting in the middle east?

    I really don't know why anymore. Can someone defend this and give me an idea?

    I am not one to lambast war. I think war is necessary sometimes. I just don't get this one anymore.

    Considering that I am a patriot, this thread is not intended to turn into a bash/grind your axe against the U.S. thread. I've seen enough of that and it does not help me.

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    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    we're still fighting in the middle east because war is nothing more than a politically devised business plan in which the armsdealers are the investors. investors pay politicians, politicians start war, soldiers go to war.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    Random thoughts:

    * It's profitable for several companies (oil, construction, army suppliers)
    * Pride of the leaders. No side can lay down arms, as it would be a sign of weakness. Wars rarely end with bullets, they are ended with pen.
    * Blood calls out for more blood. It no longer matters why all the fighting began.. the opponent is evil and murdered thousands of innocents. That alone is a reason good enougth to keep fighting.
    * Religions are constantly battling for supremacy. As each of involved religion really does little to allow harmony between religions, zealots and fanatics use weapons to make their point.
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    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Fight to win. What you win is a secondary concern. Just remember the first part.

    Fight to win.

  5. #5
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    we're still fighting in the middle east because war is nothing more than a politically devised business plan in which the armsdealers are the investors. investors pay politicians, politicians start war, soldiers go to war.
    I do not see this. What kind of business plan? What is the business plan for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Habba View Post
    Random thoughts:

    * It's profitable for several companies (oil, construction, army suppliers)
    Surely, it costs us more money than it makes?
    * Pride of the leaders. No side can lay down arms, as it would be a sign of weakness. Wars rarely end with bullets, they are ended with pen.
    I can see this. Pride. A battle of pride would be the hardest to end though!

    * Blood calls out for more blood. It no longer matters why all the fighting began.. the opponent is evil and murdered thousands of innocents. That alone is a reason good enougth to keep fighting.
    Yeah I think this connects well with the above pride example.

    * Religions are constantly battling for supremacy. As each of involved religion really does little to allow harmony between religions, zealots and fanatics use weapons to make their point.
    I don't really see the U.S. and its allies as religious zealots. I don't believe we are fighting this war over religion.

  6. #6
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    It is of strategic importance.

    In the future this importance will only grow as oil reserves dwindle.

    It's as simple as that.

    PS - the suez is also pretty damn important.

  7. #7
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    But most of our oil comes from canada, and we could get the rest from other places besides the middle east.

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    If it's so easy then why don't we?

    Those other places don't have the massive reserves of the middle east.

    Having military installations within a stones (missiles) throw of the greatest oil reserves in the world will only strengthen our global control as time moves forward.

    Think about the power it gives us to have military control (by proximity) of the vast majority of the worlds energy reserves.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    I do not see this. What kind of business plan? What is the business plan for?
    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    Surely, it costs us more money than it makes?
    us? What is 'us'? Unfortunately no western government is a team that would pull the rope together, but rather are a group of people with conflicting interests.

    Here's some interesting numbers I found off the internet:
    Halliburton reported soaring revenues from its contracts to help rebuild Iraq. Sales in the third quarter of 2003 were 39% higher at $4.1bn (£2.5bn), and profits grew fourfold to $49m, of which $34m was Iraq business.
    Boeing, the world´s largest plane maker, and defence contractor Northrop Grumman also enjoyed a war dividend. Boeing raised its revenue guidance for the full year as military systems and aircraft offset the weakness in commercial jets. Northrop, maker of the B-2 stealth bomber, turned a $59m loss in 2002 into a $184m profit in 2003.
    Bechtel Group Inc. USAID awarded the largest of its postwar Iraq contracts to Bechtel Group Inc. April 17. The capital construction contract gives Bechtel an initial award of $34.6 million (with further funding of up to $680 million over 18 months - subject to Congress´ approval) to rebuild power generation facilities, electrical grids, water and sewage systems and airport facilities in Iraq.
    The Iraqi economy is not being rebuilt - the infrastructure is. The people of Iraq are not employed by these US companies, the profits do not stay in Iraq, and as a result the Iraqis become more dependant on aid from the West.
    And it seems that they did not receive these contracts by chance... they were given these contracts without much competition, as they had good connections to the government.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    I don't really see the U.S. and its allies as religious zealots. I don't believe we are fighting this war over religion.
    No? "War on terror" is nothing but a zealous campaign against unseen enemy that seems to be everywhere. Also, muslims are being treated badly within US and have to face racism daily.

    And how is this not an act of fanaticism?
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  10. #10
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    Why do you think China is investing so heavily in (natural resource rich) Africa?

    I'll guarantee you it isn't out of altruism.

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