User Tag List

12 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 15

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    481

    Default So...about our naive president and Badass Netanyahu

    I mean Bibi Netanyahu, but Badass Netanyahu sounds cooler anyway...

    Something that really really bugs me about the dude I voted into office is this...

    Why does he always start negotiations where he should finish them?

    EG start with public option, end up at some sort of insurance reform. Now, start with 1967 borders for Israel (LOL!), end up who knows where...

    Now that the Palestinian governments are united and next to Mahmoud Abbas is that ugly motherfucker Ismayil Haniyeh...uhhh...

    Can't we simply make negotiations go like this?

    Palestinians have rockets. Israel has M1 Abrams tanks and generation 4.5 fighter jets with F-35s (if not F-22s...we really could close the deficit some by exporting those guys to Australia, Japan, and Israel). Palestinians fire rockets, two can play at that game.

    Negotiations: you do as we say, because otherwise we'll just continue doing what we're doing, and if you try to commit violence, we'll pay you back a hundredfold like on Obama's inauguration.

    I mean honestly, before even beginning negotiations, why can't Obama demand that the Palestinians will

    A) never ever have a standing army
    B) recognize Israel's right to exist
    C) completely renounce any fundamentalist ideologies and expunge such people from their government
    D) renounce right of return (not logistically happening)

    And then we can talk...

    Why exactly is our president being such a sissy? Doesn't he realize he's the most powerful guy in the world here? Who needs partiality? Especially to people who danced in the streets when the WTC got destroyed on 9/11?
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  2. #2
    Senior Member Shimmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    SEXY
    Posts
    1,868

    Default

    There's too much political bullshit going on around Israel. If the U.S. support Israel to strongly they will enflame the region and loose support of relatively friendly (and oil rich) nations like Saoudi Arabia and Jordany, but if they don't support Israel enough they loose their only real ally in the region and possibly push Israel in a war with other Syria and Iran.

    Obviously the U.S. (and the rest of the western world) want the situation resolved, but they can't just pick a side for fear of esalation.
    (removed)

  3. #3
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,422

    Default

    Your post makes me want to scream: "You have found the solution to a war that has been going on for thousands of years! Here, have a lollipop!" /sarcasm

    Also, you make it seem like the Palistinians are the bad guys. Not only that, you are willing to enslave them, remove them from having the same rights of freedom as we have. The right to defend themselves, the right to have their own beliefs.

    Only the realization of both sides that both sides are of the same seed, the same creation, will be able to end this war. Will it ever happen? I doubt it, first us humans would have to become actually intelligent. That will take some time to evolve.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  4. #4
    meat popsicle r.a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    STFU
    Posts
    496

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    Can't we simply make negotiations go like this?

    Palestinians have rockets. Israel has M1 Abrams tanks and generation 4.5 fighter jets with F-35s (if not F-22s...we really could close the deficit some by exporting those guys to Australia, Japan, and Israel). Palestinians fire rockets, two can play at that game.

    Negotiations: you do as we say, because otherwise we'll just continue doing what we're doing, and if you try to commit violence, we'll pay you back a hundredfold like on Obama's inauguration.
    that's great. that whole hundred fold, eye for an eye bullshit. Israel is soooo hard-ass with their M1 Abrams tanks and F-35's, and even more hard ass when they bully tiny imaginary countries around. the rest of the world totally doesn't think Israel has a sore, sandy vagina.

    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    I mean honestly, before even beginning negotiations, why can't Obama demand that the Palestinians will

    A) never ever have a standing army
    yes, an army of skinny goat farmers, what a terrifying sight.

    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    B) recognize Israel's right to exist
    2 way street, and being buttsore about it only makes Israel look petty and facist.
    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    C) completely renounce any fundamentalist ideologies and expunge such people from their governmen
    riiiiight. totally not a blatantly hypocritical stance...
    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    D) renounce right of return (not logistically happening)
    And then we can talk...
    well, if the Palestinians had some more land...
    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post

    Why exactly is our president being such a sissy? Doesn't he realize he's the most powerful guy in the world here? Who needs partiality? Especially to people who danced in the streets when the WTC got destroyed on 9/11?
    i did not vote for Obama, but the one thing I have actually agreed with him on was not being a pussy about the whole Israel thing. It takes balls to suggest they give the Palestinians land back. It would be a pussy thing to do if he just regurgitated the same scripted rhetoric we usually hear.
    "All authority of any kind, especially in the field of thought and understanding, is destructive and evil. Leaders destroy the followers and the followers destroy the leaders. You have to be your own teacher and your own disciple. You have to question everything that man has accepted as valuable, as necessary."
    -
    J.Krishnamurti

  5. #5
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    2,934

    Default

    I humbly think it's time for IlyaK and other conservative right-wingers to understand that something has changed within the Arab world (and this change is still occuring, right now in Syria)... and that Israel should try to adapt to these entirely new circumstances rather than to repeat an obsolete soap opera over and over again.

    It's time to upgrade the Israeli software.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    481

    Default

    Ehhh, I'm right-wing on the whole peacenik with people trying to kill you thing. Left wing on domestic social issues, somewhat centric on economics.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  7. #7
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    Yin
    Enneagram
    One sx/sp
    Posts
    13,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post

    A) never ever have a standing army
    B) recognize Israel's right to exist
    C) completely renounce any fundamentalist ideologies and expunge such people from their government
    D) renounce right of return (not logistically happening)
    A is a bit difficult to ask for if there's going to be a two state solution. C can be nebulous and hard to enforce. Now yes, of course they need to accept Israel's existence and also realize that there's no way everyone is moving back to Palestine. The impetus is not all on them, however. Israel must agree to this:

    A) That there will indeed be a two state solution,
    B) That Jerusalem will be owned by both parties
    C) That Israeli "settlements" must be prevented from developing further at the very least, and possibly current ones need to be demolished.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  8. #8
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,679

    Default

    Yeah or alternatively the west could stop trying to dictate to the whole of the middle east and let the Israelis complete their continued fighting of the second world war with their committing of some world shattering atrocity like the one they suffered and bare the consequences of that themselves.

    Personally I'm disgusted at how the Israelis behaved and I'm disgusted at the continued citation of the holocaust over and over again in any and all negotiations of any kind, its got to being grotesque and time's long over due that anyone who actually suffered it directly questioned whether this or that contemporaneous negotiation has that much to do with it, there's a sort of "race consciousness" going on there what I think anyone should be worried about.

    There's been genocide before and since and I think the special status of the Jewish Holocaust actually permits the world to shrug when its met with atrocities like those in Bosnia, involving systematic rape and deliberate impregnation for instance, and the Rwandan genocide.

    The jewish people are not fighting for their very survival and suffering universal discrimination and hatred, that's long past its sell buy date that message, although it serves the Israeli state pretty well and the state and the people arent the same thing.

  9. #9
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    1,492

    Default

    Why is this pre-1967 borders thing some radical surprise? It's the exact same position the last two Presidents took on the issue, meaning it has ostensibly been the bi-partisan American stance for eighteen years, if not more.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    481

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah or alternatively the west could stop trying to dictate to the whole of the middle east and let the Israelis complete their continued fighting of the second world war with their committing of some world shattering atrocity like the one they suffered and bare the consequences of that themselves.

    Personally I'm disgusted at how the Israelis behaved and I'm disgusted at the continued citation of the holocaust over and over again in any and all negotiations of any kind, its got to being grotesque and time's long over due that anyone who actually suffered it directly questioned whether this or that contemporaneous negotiation has that much to do with it, there's a sort of "race consciousness" going on there what I think anyone should be worried about.

    There's been genocide before and since and I think the special status of the Jewish Holocaust actually permits the world to shrug when its met with atrocities like those in Bosnia, involving systematic rape and deliberate impregnation for instance, and the Rwandan genocide.

    The jewish people are not fighting for their very survival and suffering universal discrimination and hatred, that's long past its sell buy date that message, although it serves the Israeli state pretty well and the state and the people arent the same thing.
    Why is the holocaust constantly brought up time and again? Ohhh, I don't know, maybe because in every single prior instance of history, there was some oppressor killing and scattering Jews, and the biggest most horrifying one was the holocaust. Trust me, it's happened before then, and right to form, Ismail Haniyeh, Hezbollah, and the rest of those towel-headed-why-can't-we-throw-out-the-Geneva-convention-so-we-can-erase-those-shitstains-from-the-planet-collateral-damage-be-damned theocrats are as usual, calling for the destruction of the Jews.

    That's why. This isn't a "oh we Palestinians want some land". No, if it was simply a case of "we feel wronged, we have grievances to redress", the Palestinians would never have taken up violence.

    It isn't simply a case of having some mutual negotiation.

    And also, the whole "you took our land" schtick doesn't hold either. Know why? Well, okay, since you're in Northern Ireland, imagine that the rest of the Irish still wanted the British out of Ireland and decided to get that through violence. I mean you know about the Irish wars. Now, because both the Irish and the English let cooler heads prevail, we have peace in that region.

    However, in the middle east, it's more a case of the fact that A) you have Arab dictatorial theocratic states for miles around, and don't be fooled by this whole "Arab Spring". You have a bunch of relatively uneducated (by modern standards) and unemployed people rising up to throw a dictator out of power, but who will they elect? Probably more theocrats since it's the only thing they know B) the more theocratic these people are, the more they hate Jews, infidels, and cultures that let women walk around in skimpy clothing, charge interest on loans, idolize sexuality, etc...

    So generally, it isn't a case of "you took our land", because throughout history, there has been plenty of nations getting downsized, such as the Japanese empire getting eviscerated, Germany losing territory to Poland after WW2, and so forth.

    No, the violence and vitriol on the part of one side (that's the Palestinians) mainly arises from the fact that it's Israel there, and not other Muslims.

    And perhaps they're fortunate in this fact as well...because if it had been another group of Arabs they were constantly pestering with their only occasionally effective suicide bombings, random civilian killings, and rocket attacks, that other Arab nation wouldn't have had many qualms about breaking the Geneva conventions, doing some morally reprehensible things, and generally scouring those misbegotten misfits from the face of the planet.

    In my opinion, the very fact that the Palestinians actually think they can negotiate is absurd. Israel can and probably should say "we're not budging, and if you try anything violent, we'll make you pay in blood a thousandfold. Try calling our bluff, and we'll make Operation Cast Lead seem like child's play".

    Any Palestinian leader in that case, if he truly cares about the preservation of his people's lives, would actually do very well to heed that advice. Any Palestinian leader that calls the Israeli bluff should be seen as one who doesn't give a damn about the very people he claims to lead.

    After all, as Israel has shown in Cast Lead, when it comes to stopping violence, that's priority one. And if it means stooping to your opponent's level if it gets them to stop, so be it.

    Edit: and sure about the two state thing (whatever that means--not like the Palestinians would be welcomed in Israel), but splitting Jerusalem? To illustrate the absurdity of that statement:

    Imagine if a radical Muslim group started carrying out suicide attacks in London and demanded a chunk of it be under their control outside English authority, or they'd continue with the acts of violence.

    Sound absurd?

    What would happen if Israeli leaders said "Forget your negotiations through violence, do your worst, and we'll do ours. Let's go?"
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

Similar Threads

  1. [MBTItm] What do movies we like and books we read say about our types?
    By Ene in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: 05-24-2015, 11:48 AM
  2. The so-called Mini-Ice age and "Global Warming"
    By heart in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 08-02-2009, 08:51 PM
  3. [ISTJ] How does one go about wooing an ISTJ? (and other questions)
    By Tea Party in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 119
    Last Post: 04-26-2009, 04:55 PM
  4. So I've got I and T... but not so sure about the rest...
    By zhandao in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 01-24-2008, 07:56 PM
  5. Odd idea about (some) NT's and NF's.
    By Athenian200 in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 01-13-2008, 11:16 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO