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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Well until the city of london is defeated I just dont think Britain can work.
    I don't think 'defeated' is necessary; but I do view it as counter-productive applying macro-economic policy to support one part of a state over it's other constituents.

    I remember someone predicting that the next step in the evolution of states was that cities would become more and more independent to allow them to 'decouple' from the economic policy applied to the overall country.

    It's well documented that NY, SF, London, Bonn, Brussels, Beijing obey very close economic requirements, which is very different to any of the countries they reside within. It's a raw deal for these cities and also for the countries in which they live; interest rates should be much more stable outwith them and within them they should be more variable; it's really like having 2 sets of priorities, flipping the coins and always coming up heads.

  2. #22
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Do y'all claim the Scots-Irish of North America as your own? Just wondering, since many of the qualities persisted, such as wrong-resenting, suspicion toward centralized government, Presbyterian orneriness, compulsive contrarianism, fighting many of the country's wars with little recognition, et cetera. That being said, I'm pretty sure barbecue beats any culinary offering from the old country. At the same time, Scotland does far better than country and bluegrass music.

    It's well documented that NY, SF, London, Bonn, Brussels, Beijing obey very close economic requirements, which is very different to any of the countries they reside within. It's a raw deal for these cities and also for the countries in which they live; interest rates should be much more stable outwith them and within them they should be more variable; it's really like having 2 sets of priorities, flipping the coins and always coming up heads.
    I wonder how much of that has to do with currency issues. You're caught in a double bind between the need for widespread acceptance of currency, and the desire to be able to manipulate the central bank to one's advantage. The American economic cosmopolitans are furthermore stuck because of the US Dollar's status as global reserve currency. The Renminbi requires careful control to maintain China's trade advantages, and thus Beijing, Shanghai and Shenzhen's power. In the case of the Eurozone cities, they might have tried it already, were it not for the 2008 Crisis and subsequent national siege mentalities (or Belgium's utter lack of desire to make anything resembling a decision about its future).

    London's case illustrates the other aspect of maintaining national ties - those cities maintain their financial power in part as a consequence of the state's military power.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Do y'all claim the Scots-Irish of North America as your own? Just wondering, since many of the qualities persisted, such as wrong-resenting, suspicion toward centralized government, Presbyterian orneriness, compulsive contrarianism, fighting many of the country's wars with little recognition, et cetera. That being said, I'm pretty sure barbecue beats any culinary offering from the old country. At the same time, Scotland does far better than country and bluegrass music.
    All true enough.

    These underlying differences have been flared due to massive asset stripping with regards to Oil, Margret Thatchers Asset Stripping and EU arrangements where Scottish things are given up to get London concessions - The 30 years hidden McCrone Report.

    Sadly the Scottish people have suffered for one defining trait over their orneriness and compulsive contrarianism. Their loyalty and generosity. I think now that the 'Too poor, too small, too stupid' argument doesn't seem to be holding when you compare the current state of the 'Whole UK is better' then people are gradually shifting in the other direction and re-evaluating these statehood relationships. The UK is a little unique in that it is a 'country of countries' but it is also not a union of equals like you would see in a federalised state such as Germany or the US.

    Before the mass Londonisation occurred in the 70's Scotland was a massive right wing 'pro monarchy, pro Britain, but pro Scotland' stronghold when Scotland had it's own 'version' of a 'right wing' pro-Scotland party which it now does not as it has been merged into the London based 'Conservative and Unionist Party'. It seems there is a complete lack in faith here that anything is done in London for even a thought of the interests of Scottish People to the point that this is seemingly unsalvageable.

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    military power.
    This is a fascinating point, because to be perfectly honest, although Scots are notoriously violent and aggressive. No-one here cares much for Nuclear Weapons, infact I've never heard anyone support them at all. Yet, here we are, with all of these UKinc nukes sitting about in Farslane and Rosyth. That's just bizarre. We'd be much happier just having a reasonably competent and equipped land army with 40 or so nice planes that can do whatever.

  4. #24
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    All true enough.

    These underlying differences have been flared due to massive asset stripping with regards to Oil, Margret Thatchers Asset Stripping and EU arrangements where Scottish things are given up to get London concessions - The 30 years hidden McCrone Report.
    Continuing parallels - I can't help but think that the EU arrangements have worked to the detriment of Scotland in much the same way that NAFTA did toward the Scots-Irish worker (along with the rest of the US working class). Wall Street sees huge increases in profits, while people in towns like Winchester, Va. live in perpetual dread of the next plant moving to Mexico or overseas. They've got no power, because their state government's bought off by the Wall Street interests. In much the same way, the Scots people have no power, because of the City's utter domination over Westminster.

    Sadly the Scottish people have suffered for one defining trait over their orneriness and compulsive contrarianism. Their loyalty and generosity.
    That's the truth, and that too carried over. Poverty, marginalization and a cruel environment made a mean people, and yet, I've got distant cousins all over the South who I've never met, but who, as soon as I mention a relative's name, will leave me with a full belly and a warm place to sleep. They're not lying, either, when they sign up to go fight in Iraq or Afghanistan because they "love their country."

    I think now that the 'Too poor, too small, too stupid' argument doesn't seem to be holding when you compare the current state of the 'Whole UK is better' then people are gradually shifting in the other direction and re-evaluating these statehood relationships. The UK is a little unique in that it is a 'country of countries' but it is also not a union of equals like you would see in a federalised state such as Germany or the US.
    I definitely hear what you're saying. The Union, after all, was a marriage of political convenience that simply stuck because a bunch of Scots decided to invent the Industrial Revolution and subsequently transform London into the capital of the world. Even the independence referendum speaks to this - it ultimately is non-binding, unless the UK Parliament manufactures some means of dissolution. Somehow, I think that's going to be a big, nasty fight - one that I hope doesn't end up going beyond metaphorical.

    Before the mass Londonisation occurred in the 70's Scotland was a massive right wing 'pro monarchy, pro Britain, but pro Scotland' stronghold when Scotland had it's own 'version' of a 'right wing' pro-Scotland party which it now does not as it has been merged into the London based 'Conservative and Unionist Party'. It seems there is a complete lack in faith here that anything is done in London for even a thought of the interests of Scottish People to the point that this is seemingly unsalvageable.
    Well, after Thatcher single-handedly dismantled every Scottish factory in the course of a decade, I'm not shocked that this perception arose. Then with the Tories and New Labour equally willing to shunt off North Sea oil proceeds to Brussels and the City, why would any reasonably-thinking person think that they give a damn? Even when a supposed Scot becomes prime minister, he feels it's far more important to clamp down on pot smokers than the thieves running around the City.

    Not shocked in the least bit.

    This is a fascinating point, because to be perfectly honest, although Scots are notoriously violent and aggressive. No-one here cares much for Nuclear Weapons, infact I've never heard anyone support them at all. Yet, here we are, with all of these UKinc nukes sitting about in Farslane. That's just bizarre. We'd be much happier just having a reasonably competent and equipped land army with 40 or so nice planes that can do whatever.
    At least you know where your nukes are. I'd be shocked if I could find ten people over the rest of the day who knew the significance of F. E. Warren AFB, Malmstrom AFB, Minot AFB, Whiteman AFB, or Barksdale AFB.

  5. #25
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    Alba gú brath!


    I hope Scotland gets its independence, and yes I do think it is Scotland's oil. If there's a war of independence, i'll come over and help you guys if you'll have me
    Been listening to way too many Jacobite Rebellion songs over the years, I think :O It's gone to my head.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    That's the truth, and that too carried over. Poverty, marginalization and a cruel environment made a mean people, and yet, I've got distant cousins all over the South who I've never met, but who, as soon as I mention a relative's name, will leave me with a full belly and a warm place to sleep. They're not lying, either, when they sign up to go fight in Iraq or Afghanistan because they "love their country."
    Interesting but unprovable statistics: Although the SAS does not comment on it's intake it is 'widely rumoured to be true' that it is approximately 80% Scottish. Considering that the SAS takes candidates from Ireland, Canada, Oz and New Zealand as well as the UK it's a pretty shocking statistic if true. To think, my continental friends get grumpy when I don't 'look them in the eyes' when I say cheers and chink their glasses at the pub. In my country we would kill a man for less. =]

    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    I hope Scotland gets its independence, and yes I do think it is Scotland's oil. If there's a war of independence, i'll come over and help you guys if you'll have me
    Been listening to way too many Jacobite Rebellion songs over the years, I think :O It's gone to my head.
    I don't think it'll come to that, the sea boundaries are already agreed under international law (because of the separate Scottish legal system). If it was required to go to an international court they would just draw 'mean lines' which is pretty much where they are already.

  7. #27
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    Question: do you think that you'd be a republic or a constitutional monarchy?
    Having some german prince sounds like a horrible idea, though. It'd be pretty cool to make Mel Gibson king of Scotland, though. Wouldn't it?

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Interesting but unprovable statistics: Although the SAS does not comment on it's intake it is 'widely rumoured to be true' that it is approximately 80% Scottish. Considering that the SAS takes candidates from Ireland, Canada, Oz and New Zealand as well as the UK it's a pretty shocking statistic if true. To think, my continental friends get grumpy when I don't 'look them in the eyes' when I say cheers and chink their glasses at the pub. In my country we would kill a man for less. =]
    Love it. I definitely have issues with looking people in the eyes, too. As you rightly notice, it's very aggressive, after all.

    I guess Bear Grylls is amateur hour to you all, huh?

    Sort of makes sense when it comes to the two great sports brought to Canada (I'm a citizen, though I've never been) by the Scots - curling, to have an excuse to drink on the ice, and ice hockey, to have an excuse to fight over the curling match thereafter

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    Question: do you think that you'd be a republic or a constitutional monarchy?
    Having some german prince sounds like a horrible idea, though. It'd be pretty cool to make Mel Gibson king of Scotland, though. Wouldn't it?
    Probably still a Monarchy. The Queen is alright really and she pays for the privilege via. the crown estate as discussed earlier.

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    I guess Bear Grylls is amateur hour to you all, huh?
    *challenges Bear Grylls to a Deep Fried Mars bar eating contest*

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Scottish women are the most attractive women in the whole god damned world.
    Whatever. Gerard Butler. 'Nuff said.

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