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  1. #21
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Actually, I don't think that is such a rare opinion on this side of the Atlantic. If you consider the death penealty to be immoral, as Europeans tend to do, you believe in the right to a fair trial for absolutely everybody, as we tend to, and you assume that the war on terror is no real war in the stricter sense of the concept, it was simply an assasination. Nobody sheds a tear for him, don't get me wrong. But I think many Europeans are a bit ambivalent about the ethics of all this.
    Although muslims have not declared war, Islam is at war with Jews, Dhimmi and Infidels.

    And naturally we are reluctant to acknowledge that religious war has been declared on us, if for no other reason than religious wars are the worst and most intractable of wars.

    And also, no longer believing ourselves, we can't credit that some, but not all muslims, are driven by their faith to mass murder and suicide and political domination. It is quite beyond our imagination.

    But nonetheless we are at war and we are fighting a just war, and in a just war we have the right and duty to kill the enemy. And that is what we did in Abbottabad, we killed an enemy leader in a just war.

  2. #22
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    I don't know why anyone is surprised. It's a major point in a major conflict. Plus, SEALs and direct action have always been the sexy part of SOF. Disney already bought the rights to make s movie of Horse Soldiers too.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member Stigmata's Avatar
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    Knowing Disney, you can expect this to turn into some type of cringe-worthy war film depicting the events both September 11th and the invasion of Iraq starring Dennis Quaid and Shia labeouf, but not without Disney's classic father/son conflict.

  4. #24
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Disney's pulling out of the deal, withdrawing the trademark application. The Navy filed its own trademark applications to keep Disney (or anyone else) from drawing a profit, and it apparently worked:

    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...,6607619.story
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Actually, I don't think that is such a rare opinion on this side of the Atlantic. If you consider the death penealty to be immoral, as Europeans tend to do, you believe in the right to a fair trial for absolutely everybody, as we tend to, and you assume that the war on terror is no real war in the stricter sense of the concept, it was simply an assasination. Nobody sheds a tear for him, don't get me wrong. But I think many Europeans are a bit ambivalent about the ethics of all this.
    I'm certain many on this side of the ocean feel the same way. But my view is that people who disapprove of retaliation in the name of justice are free to personally refrain from doing it. Those who do not share that belief do not require a consensus before taking action.

    I see nothing unethical about eliminating him. He refused to abide by the normal rules of restraint. Therefore, he cannot expect to hide behind those same rules for protection. There is no such thing as inalienable rights.

  6. #26
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    There is no such thing as inalienable rights.
    False.

    Having said that, I'm sure Osama understood that better than most.

    You live by the sword, you die by the sword. I doubt Osama was stupid. He knew what was likely to happen...and he thought it was worth it.
    Was it?
    I argue that it progressed his cause, yes. What Osama did..is perhaps still not recognized. But he left his mark. And so far he has been the biggest. It took 10 years...and those 10 years we (or they) won't get back.

    And although it doesn't matter...I'll bite.
    Was Osama's death justified? I think most people would say yes...but I think that's what he wanted most people to think. If true, what does that tell you about him? About us? About his cause?

  7. #27
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mkenya View Post
    I argue that it progressed his cause, yes. What Osama did..is perhaps still not recognized. But he left his mark. And so far he has been the biggest. It took 10 years...and those 10 years we (or they) won't get back.
    Perhaps more importantly, it has weakened America primarily (and quite heavily) economically, contributing quite a lot to our deficit, what with two wars and the creation of perhaps the most sprawling bureaucracy in American history (Dept of Homeland Security). In fact, Bin Laden always posited the best way to destroy America is to let us destroy our own economy with a little push, and he did a lot to make that happen.

    What he didn't know is that we had a ton of bankers on the same page doing more than he ever could from inside.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  8. #28
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    if they can make money from it, more power to'em.
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  9. #29
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    if they can make money from it, more power to'em.
    Well, they can't. As I noted earlier, their motion for a copyright was withdrawn after complaints from the Navy and bad press.

    Also, I find "if they can make money from it, more power to 'em" is not a particularly good philosophy without a few caveats.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

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