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  1. #1
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Default Traditional Men -- I want your opinion on this.

    Source of my inspiration, though I wasn't going to discuss the act itself: http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-h3/show

    Basically, this whole H.R. 3 thing made me think abour republicans, conservative people, and traditionally-geared mentalities.

    You know who you are.. You're the ones with the "Women have certain places, and that's that" idea. Marriage is One man One Woman. The ones who think Men are from Mars and Women are .. well you know the drill. I'm not here at all to refute or argue with that mentality in this thread either. I want YOUR opinions.

    If you consider yourself, or have been called by others, very tradition in the sense of gender and your thoughts on it.. Here is my question.

    With the thought of Abortions being the inspiration in mind..

    -How much say do you think women should have over their own bodies?
    -Do you feel it is a "I don't know anything about women.. so I don't care. But I personally think it's wrong" thing? Or is it a "That sort of decision cannot be left to the woman alone without any say" thing? Or something else entirely?
    -Should a woman be able to have an abortion funded if it WILL severely endanger her life?
    -Should a woman raise a child that was conceived via incest and rape?
    -Most importantly.. Do you feel men should be allowed to vote on things like this without women being in the majority?

    I'm not looking for right or wrong.. I just want the opinions of traditional men on how they view women handling their own bodies and lives in the area traditional men claim women should be firmly placed in. If our main responsibilities are traditional to you.. then children are our number one priority. So how much say should we have legally with this in mind?
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

    Cimarron: maybe Prpl will be your girl-bud
    prplchknz: i don't like it

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  2. #2
    Ginkgo
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  3. #3
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    ^ Don't troll my thread! I was being serious!
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

    Cimarron: maybe Prpl will be your girl-bud
    prplchknz: i don't like it

    In Search Of... ... Kiwi Sketch Art ... Dream Journal ... Kyuuei's Cook book ... Kyu's Tiny House Blog ... Minimalist Challenge ... Kyu's Savings Challenge

  4. #4
    Oberon
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    Oh yeah, I'm going to jump into this thread with BOTH feet...

    Right after I'm done cramming my head into this wood chipper.

  5. #5
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    It isn't some trolly-trap to make people look bad.. I just see a lot of very obvious, blatant opinions buried in other threads.. and I have no idea where a traditional male would stand on a topic like this. They're everywhere, and I have no idea what their real opinion on it all is. Part of being informed and educated is knowing what those around you think as well.. whether you agree with it or not is another discussion, one I don't intend to bring into this thread.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

    Cimarron: maybe Prpl will be your girl-bud
    prplchknz: i don't like it

    In Search Of... ... Kiwi Sketch Art ... Dream Journal ... Kyuuei's Cook book ... Kyu's Tiny House Blog ... Minimalist Challenge ... Kyu's Savings Challenge

  6. #6
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Default

    It will probably come up in this thread, though. But who cares?

    Come on folks, stoke the fires! You'll do it somewhere else, anyhow.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  7. #7
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    It will probably come up in this thread, though. But who cares?

    Come on folks, stoke the fires! You'll do it somewhere else, anyhow.


    Man make fire, woman make baby.

  8. #8
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    There is no substantial difference between the percentage of men and women who support or oppose abortion; the premise of the thread is fundamentally flawed.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/127559/Ed...-Abortion.aspx

  9. #9
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I want to contribute to this thread but I've got to qualify a few things for the purposes of clarity, I definitely have been described as traditional, in some senses I do think I am traditional but I think that is a difficult term (more about that in a minute) but in others I definitely am not, while I've definitely said that marriage is one man and one woman and hold fast to that I dont know that I would hold the "women know your place" view which is also mentioned.

    Traditionalism is a difficult term for me because our view of the past, or future for that matter, is fundamentally effected by the present, people locate golden ages and utopias in the past or future and generally it is all about providing a contrast between the "is" and "ought" and they are as apt to be fictions in either case. Might be useful, might not be.

    Traditionalism can be linked with something else though, what can be described as reflective conservatism, a phrase coined by Walter Baghot a writer on the English Constitution, who was pretty serious about the examination of the transmission of wisdom and learning from one generation to the next, this sense traditionalism is the view that there is no need to constantly reinvent the wheel but also, occasionally, the need to take a stand against those who would get involved that possibly wasteful exercise or perhaps something stupid, like inventing a square wheel and suggesting its newness validates its utility.

    In that sense I could be considered a traditionalist, although I would say that I am culturally conservative more than politically or economically conservative, I dont see them as all the same thing at all and I would say more about that but its off topic really. Its not that I believe in a bygone golden age or give the past props it doesnt deserve, its actually more that I find the present and progressives to be painfully conceited in their appraisal of the past. People were not morons in the past and who knows that the future wont be full of people believing that they can not fathom popular or conventional wisdom of the present.

    OK, so to the topic of abortion, I dont support the withdrawal of tax funding to abortion, its a form of financial warfare on abortion hoping that if it is unaffordable it will stop happening and that's not going to happen. Although I have a greater reason for opposing that, welfare states are a compromise and they will always involve spending that's not personally approved by the tax payer footing the bill, in the UK they tried to kick off a debate about how welfare states could survive in multi-cultural societies when they had originally been conceived in homogenous societies characterised by consensus because of this. If I were to personally control spending priorities I'll bet it would be different to the next man and the next man after that would have a different set of priorities too.

    I believe that over their bodies women should be completely sovereign, make whatever decisions they choose, however I do think that abortion shouldnt be used as a form of contraception or like a form of contraception and that the harm involved in even necessary abortions is often minimised by many of its supporters, to some of whom it appears like a modern day rite of passage. I think it should be available to any woman in any instance, whether its incest or rape or just recreational sex. I think everyone should have a right to vote on matters such as this but especially tax payers and that should be a topic to dialogue on too. Where the baby may jeopardise the life of the mother if it is allowed to come to term is a good question, that should be the woman's choice too and some women will choose to jeopardise their life in order to give birth, even die in the process.

    There's a number of mistaken presumptions in the OP which I'm used to, that there is a male-female pro and anti abortion divide, there's not, a lot of women are anti-abortion and not simply personally, the instance citation of rape-incest, a fairly extreme instance, and not that common among those using abortion services, that being pro-life is about being pro-baby life and not pro-life generally, including adult women, and the biggy, that opposing abortion is secretly about exercising control over women and usurping sovereignty, simply a species of authoritarianism. It may be but it could as easily not be.

    While I think abortion should be available, in part because I believe seriously in personal responsibility and choice, later term abortions horrify me because medical science has advanced in the care of premature babies to the point were it is virtual infanticide and I think that abortion is grossly over subscribed. That will not be changed by political or economic pressures, it is a cultural issue. There's no quick fix. Outlawing it will result in a situation worse than available abortion I'm sure, in terms of the unwanted, maternally deprived, rejection traumatised children flooding the world. However I do think there should be a point at which repeated abortions or repeated children having to be rescued by welfare services should mandate sterilisation, authoritarian I know but that's my line.

    There is a sex divide here, if enough men cared seriously about containing and rolling back abortions there'd be something like universal contraceptive implants or sterilisation of males, that's how I feel, I take my own personal responsibility and choice very seriously. Objectively men have little power in procreative terms, the stories abound, and they are more than urban myths, of women conceiving against the wishes of their male partners, even stealing sperm from condoms. Its surprising given that that's the case that there's not more males in favour of abortion.

  10. #10
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    "Traditional" is just another word for "supports the patriarchy."

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