User Tag List

First 12345 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 69

  1. #21
    The Eighth Colour Octarine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    MBTI
    Aeon
    Enneagram
    10w so
    Socionics
    LOL
    Posts
    1,366

    Default

    Traditionally our ancestors practised infanticide for children with disabilities, or those which they otherwise couldn't support or offload to another family.

    I personally think abortion is preferable to that.

  2. #22
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    8
    Posts
    13,881

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    There is no substantial difference between the percentage of men and women who support or oppose abortion; the premise of the thread is fundamentally flawed.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/127559/Ed...-Abortion.aspx
    Like I said.. this thread is merely getting opinions. Insight on what traditional men think and feel. I'm not going to argue with them on anything they post.. I just want to know, for curiosity's sake itself. I want to know where this sort of mentality stands on these questions.. what others think, and what I think, aside.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I want to contribute to this thread ... etc.
    That passage was super helpful in figuring out where you stand exactly. Thank you for participating.

    OK, so to the topic of abortion, I dont support the withdrawal of tax funding to abortion....welfare states are a compromise and they will always involve spending that's not personally approved by the tax payer footing the bill...I believe that over their bodies women should be completely sovereign... I do think that abortion shouldnt be used as a form of contraception... I think it should be available to any woman... I think everyone should have a right to vote on [this] but especially tax payers... Where the baby may jeopardise the life of the mother if it is allowed to come to term... should be the woman's choice...
    I just summarized key points as I read through it.. This post was pretty interesting.

    There's a number of mistaken presumptions in the OP which I'm used to, that there is a male-female pro and anti abortion divide, there's not
    Hm. This is the second comment I've gotten in this thread about that. I wanted a very particular's demographic's thoughts on the issue.. The OP was never intended to mention if men feel differently than women, or if women should x or y.. I simply want to know what conservative, traditional men feel about the questions I posed. It could very well be horrid wording on my part, I seem to have gotten the wrong message across somehow.

    the instance citation of rape-incest, a fairly extreme instance, and not that common among those using abortion services, that being pro-life is about being pro-baby life and not pro-life generally, including adult women, and the biggy, that opposing abortion is secretly about exercising control over women and usurping sovereignty, simply a species of authoritarianism. It may be but it could as easily not be.
    I think most abortions have nothing to do with the rape-incest mentions.. I only mentioned it because my inspiration had one of it's arguing points as it would take away abortion rights for people that do have extreme cases.. thus, I felt it necessary to pose questions regarding those topics, since although rare, they are being affected. I don't think opposing abortions are secret control mechanisms for women, I'm not huge on the whole conspiracy theories.. If it is though, they've done an upstanding job convincing women to be pro-life. More than likely, it has to do with religious upbringings, philosophy, and the ethics and morals of individual people..

    Outlawing it will result in a situation worse than available abortion I'm sure, in terms of the unwanted, maternally deprived, rejection traumatised children flooding the world. However I do think there should be a point at which repeated abortions or repeated children having to be rescued by welfare services should mandate sterilisation, authoritarian I know but that's my line
    Unfortunately, we have history to prove that first line..

    Objectively men have little power in procreative terms, the stories abound, and they are more than urban myths, of women conceiving against the wishes of their male partners, even stealing sperm from condoms. Its surprising given that that's the case that there's not more males in favour of abortion.
    Having mostly male friends, I feel deeply for them for the various stories about their lives and potential children/current children.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Yes.
    I think I'm suppose to get an achievement of some sort added to my forum profile if I get Victor to post in a thread of mine..

    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    Eh.. Knowing a few "traditionalist men" and talking to them about this topic, I'm going to add in a few things here. Feel free to ignore this if you think I'm derailing =D
    Since everyone but lark was scared to post <3 Go right ahead!

    I don't like to, or agree with, slapping labels on people for one point of view. There are traditional people that both agree and disagree with abortion, just like non-traditional people.. and cutting it down even further to men vs. women is kinda strange to me.
    I think my ENFP title lets me declare at all times that I hate boxes and labels. .. But when you're trying to reach out to a particular demographic, there isn't much else to use. While I know this is super subjective, I don't really care about objectivity.. I simply wanted some opinions to go by.. to get a vague idea of where more conservative men stood on the issue. I've heard plenty from women.. I wanted the other side of the coin for a bit. I'm just peeking into a window out of curiosity, I don't expect to see everything.

    I seemed to view pro-choice as a neutral stance. I don't think it is now, and I also have ZERO opinion on the abortion topic. When one says they are "pro-choice" they are saying that a fully developed humans personal rights outweigh that of a less developed person, or a clump of cells, however you want to view it. I also don't understand the bumperstickers I see everyday "Don't agree with abortion? Don't get one!" Does that apply to other issues as well? "Don't agree with slaves? Don't own one!" No, that doesnt seem to work. Or the moral issue. "Don't push your morals on me!" But it goes both ways, doesnt it? Once could fire right back, "don't push your pro-choice, fetus killing views on me!"
    An ever-long battle that never seems to make much headline one way or the other.. America always seems to take the stance of, "Well, until we make up our minds, at least let the women be safe about it." while throwing their hands up in the air. I did, at one point in time, think the pro-choice thing was neutral ground as well. I got re-educated on that matter a while back.

    abortion is akin to murder as it is the act of taking human life... No civilized society permits one human to intentionally harm or take the life of another human without punishment... Adoption is a viable alternative... In the instance of rape and incest, proper medical care can ensure that a woman will not get pregnant... If a fetus is deemed a person, I see no reason to kill it for circumstances out of its control... Abortion should not be used as another form of contraception... For women who demand complete control of their body, control should include preventing the risk of unwanted pregnancy... Many Americans who pay taxes are opposed to abortion, therefore it's morally wrong to use tax dollars to fund abortion... Those who choose abortions are often minors ...Abortion frequently causes intense psychological pain and stress.
    This does, in looking back at it, look just like a pro-life assessment. The only point I will mention is that I got confused on the part where it said "Women who are raped or incest-abused should be medically taken care of to prevent pregnancy"... I'm not quite sure what arbitrary medical procedures would be done to someone who has potentially conceived that would co-exist with pro-life views.. But I think they covered that base with the "a life still deserves to live regardless" phrase.

    Thanks for posting this anyways.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

    Cimarron: maybe Prpl will be your girl-bud
    prplchknz: i don't like it

    In Search Of... ... Kiwi Sketch Art ... Dream Journal ... Kyuuei's Cook book ... Kyu's Tiny House Blog ... Minimalist Challenge ... Kyu's Savings Challenge

  3. #23
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    3,705

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    There is no substantial difference between the percentage of men and women who support or oppose abortion; the premise of the thread is fundamentally flawed.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/127559/Ed...-Abortion.aspx
    Sigh

    I guess my post bears repeating.

    The notion that opposition to abortion in most circumstances is grounded in keeping women in their 'place' is nothing more than an ideological conceit. People of either sex who oppose abortion do so because they believe its murder, and all other considerations are deemed to be secondary; its as simple (and complicated) as that.

  4. #24
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    8
    Posts
    13,881

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Sigh

    I guess my post bears repeating.

    The notion that opposition to abortion in most circumstances is grounded in keeping women in their 'place' is nothing more than an ideological conceit. People of either sex who oppose abortion do so because they believe its murder, and all other considerations are deemed to be secondary; its as simple (and complicated) as that.
    :c I'm not trying to be all dismissive.. But for example, Lark is a member of this forum I VEHEMOTHLY disagree with like 99% of the time. When asking these specific questions though.. The response I got from him was VERY different from the summary I got from the pro-life stance Hux reported and what I generally hear. Asking him directly, and getting him to respond.. I realized there are several points we both agree on, even if it is not for the same reasons. It is good to know details like that, ya know? That, even someone who (to me) is as extreme as Lark, there is a lot I gained from the details of asking the specific questions.

    Abortion =/= gender based. I know that. I just. Want to know what more conservative men think on the specifics I posted. That's all. In my post above I mentioned I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories.. I'm not trying to imply conservative men are the ones behind X, or that they're the reason for Y. It is merely opinion collecting out of curiosity.. :/
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

    Cimarron: maybe Prpl will be your girl-bud
    prplchknz: i don't like it

    In Search Of... ... Kiwi Sketch Art ... Dream Journal ... Kyuuei's Cook book ... Kyu's Tiny House Blog ... Minimalist Challenge ... Kyu's Savings Challenge

  5. #25
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,835

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I believe that over their bodies women should be completely sovereign, make whatever decisions they choose, however I do think that abortion shouldnt be used as a form of contraception or like a form of contraception and that the harm involved in even necessary abortions is often minimised by many of its supporters, to some of whom it appears like a modern day rite of passage. I think it should be available to any woman in any instance, whether its incest or rape or just recreational sex. I think everyone should have a right to vote on matters such as this but especially tax payers and that should be a topic to dialogue on too. Where the baby may jeopardise the life of the mother if it is allowed to come to term is a good question, that should be the woman's choice too and some women will choose to jeopardise their life in order to give birth, even die in the process.

  6. #26
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    SLI None
    Posts
    9,635

    Default

    I am against abortion because you may be taking a life. if you can emperically prove to me that abortion is not murder, I will change my opinion, but until that day comes, any activity that might be taking a human life is completely evil if the mother's health is not a stake
    PS: I place blame on the doctor and the father as well, not solely the mother
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
    ENFP
    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
    SEE-Fi
    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  7. #27
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    3,705

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    :c I'm not trying to be all dismissive.. But for example, Lark is a member of this forum I VEHEMOTHLY disagree with like 99% of the time. When asking these specific questions though.. The response I got from him was VERY different from the summary I got from the pro-life stance Hux reported and what I generally hear. Asking him directly, and getting him to respond.. I realized there are several points we both agree on, even if it is not for the same reasons. It is good to know details like that, ya know? That, even someone who (to me) is as extreme as Lark, there is a lot I gained from the details of asking the specific questions.

    Abortion =/= gender based. I know that. I just. Want to know what more conservative men think on the specifics I posted. That's all. In my post above I mentioned I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories.. I'm not trying to imply conservative men are the ones behind X, or that they're the reason for Y. It is merely opinion collecting out of curiosity.. :/
    OK (and for the record, I composed my last post before you answered my original post; I need to work on my speed!).

    My own stance concerning gender norms is somewhat convulated; I think any women who wishes to make their own way, contrary to traditional expectations-whatever they may be-should be encouraged (and celebrated) in doing so. On the other hand I think the (slight) majority of women are probably predisposed to be happiest when concentrating on family and children, and that should be celebrated as well, both as a means of maximizing the happiness of all individuals as well as to ensure replacement fertility levels (so that sustainable societies can be realized). In other words, I wish for mutual respect in the 'mommy wars,' but with a (slight) emphasis on traditional gender norms, on a strictly voluntary basis.

    I personally oppose abortion in most circumstances (I think it involves the termination of innocent human life), but I also support contraceptive use so that women (and their partners) can plan their reproduction according to their own desires. I suppose my separation from some of the more hard-core anti-abortionist/pro-lifer's is that I think reasonably reliable contraception is absolutely necessary, so my cutt-off point is not centered on conception (and the controversy over the sperm meeting the egg versus the fertilized egg encasing itself in the proper place-i.e. the pill) or subsequent fetal development so much as reliable preventability. I also support abortion in the case of reasonable danger to the mother's health, as well as rape or incest (though not without some hang-ups in the case of the latter, as its obviously not the baby's fault).

    Bottom line, I'm highly conflicted on this issue and my ultimate stance is simultaneously nebulous and strongly held-just like most other people's.

  8. #28
    The Eighth Colour Octarine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    MBTI
    Aeon
    Enneagram
    10w so
    Socionics
    LOL
    Posts
    1,366

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    if you can emperically prove to me that abortion is not murder
    Early term fetuses are parasitic and not yet viable, so they are not yet "human beings" and merely in a transitionary state. If they were human beings, they would be recognised by the state as citizens and therefore have full legal protections. Ergo, empirically early term abortion is not murder.

    It is really strange that some people care so much about banning early term abortions, but do absolutely nothing politically or otherwise to help prevent child mortality around the world.
    Last edited by Octarine; 05-06-2011 at 04:07 AM. Reason: Grammar

  9. #29
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    MBTI
    HUMR
    Enneagram
    6 sx
    Socionics
    iNfp Ni
    Posts
    1,521

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    The only point I will mention is that I got confused on the part where it said "Women who are raped or incest-abused should be medically taken care of to prevent pregnancy"... I'm not quite sure what arbitrary medical procedures would be done to someone who has potentially conceived that would co-exist with pro-life views.. But I think they covered that base with the "a life still deserves to live regardless" phrase.
    I think they are referring to Blan B, or something of the like. Conception does not always immediately occur, I believe its possible for sperm to live up to 72 hours before it meets egg and conceives. They are saying medically induce menstruation before actual conception. I don't know if they can really tell if it has occured or not, that quickly.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  10. #30
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    MBTI
    NiTi
    Enneagram
    5w1
    Posts
    381

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    Except, as far as I know, there's nothing innate about black people than lends them to Bass playing. Biology and chemistry (hormones) do lend women into a more "nurturing" role.
    “Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” - G. K. Chesterton

Similar Threads

  1. [INTJ] Different flavors of INTJ - INTJs, id love your opinion on this
    By TheCheeseBurgerKing in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 05-23-2016, 07:41 AM
  2. Your opinion on ENFP men
    By efraim in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 09-30-2010, 08:20 AM
  3. Your opinion on the various typology systems
    By garbage in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-05-2009, 08:33 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO