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  1. #1
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Default Fight styles of men and women

    CzeCze posted something in another thread which made me think, I've started this thread in the same part of the forum were the quote originated but I did consider putting it in the sexuality and mature section because I've posted threads about fighting or violence there before, if it would be more appropriate there please move it.

    Women are vicious - I think part of it is that when women fight it's because they are pissed and they don't care about winning or losing, they just wanna beat someone's ass.

    With guys, there is a machismo culture and even etiquette or moreso 'rules' and lot of fighting is just yelling and posturing.
    I think there is an element of truth to this, I've seen conflict or aggression between men which tended to be posturing, certainly a lot of what I encountered between the age of eleven and seventeen or eighteen (when I did most of my fighting) this was the case and I found that when the initial verbal began if you reacted with straight up physical force most of the time it didnt go anywhere, calling bluffs generally stopped trouble in all but a few exceptions were you could just tell that whoever was involved had been that badly brutalised at home or by older brothers or peers that nothing would make a difference.

    Since school I've made a study of aggression, I've been trained and provide training on behaviour management relating to this and there are two sorts, reactive and pro-active, reactive is the most common and it cam be a result of crisis, not a breakdown always, just someone using behaviour they've learned which may have been adaptive in another context but is maladaptive in this one or traumatised behaviour.

    I would say that's general to both sexes, just as an aside I would say that mankind sucks in comparison with other species, there arent many sadistic or masochistic lions or tigers, most animal kingdom aggression is "get the f**k out of my space". I say most because I know about the cases of sea cows torturing dolphins and "speciesism" between closely related animal kingdoms. Also I never seen a bored dog or cat decide violence would be an interesting diversion.

    Specific to the differences in violence between the sexes I have seen some of the difference CzeCze has talked about, when women get violent it can be much more no holds barred than men, while men can be and are violent to strangers or other men I've encountered a lot of women being violent towards people they're caring for, like their kids (there's some shitty hiearchies of domestic violence, guy feels bullied at work or on bus home, hits/bullies wife, wife hits bullies the children, children bully their peers). What's your views? This pretty much generalisation but it could be an interesting discussion.

  2. #2
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    In that case, i'm a total woman because I don't talk much, do sounds or follow rules if I am attacked.
    It's completely different from martial arts or anything controlled. Some people, when attacked (or attacking...), just do what it takes to beat the other person.
    It feels like life or death in that place in space and time, I assure you. There's nothing logical or controlled about it. It's primal.
    To a large extent, this is also what wins most fights unless you're up against someone with full contact or combat close quarters fighting knowledge and experience.

    You know, when someone's life is in danger or if, say, the child of a mother is in danger... Then a person can get insanely strong or such to deal with it.
    Some people, regardless of sex (I think), have much easier access to this than others.

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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Well, I've read a very good (it was also expensive) book by a sociologist describing violence in most people as a kind of "forward panic", that sounds like what you're describing.

    I've witnessed this, I've not experienced it very often, in a lot of volatile situations, even if I've raised my voice or appear to others to be threatening, I enter into a sort of Zen state, I'm not uncomfortable, in fact its almost as though life has become life at its most clear, most plain and simple, what needs to be done to end the violence quickly should be done, whatever that is. There's people who're good friends of mine who've said they hate me when I get like this because its hannibal lector like or something.

    Although one aspect of this is that its not like what younger people might describe as "being hard", although some of the ones I've worked with hate the way I can remain calm under pressure or when they're trying to stress people out, its not that, there's two people I work with who I was walking out through crowds of people to their cars, we passed a really bad street fight, like I mean two idiots with torn bloodied clothes pile driving each other into the blood spattered pavements and on that occasion they were shocked by how unphased I was by this happening and how calculating I was about, identifying the routes out past them and away from the ruck to safety.

    On another occasion witnessing some other violence a friend of mine asked me about standing calmly watching what was happening, I told them that I was preparing to be a good witness and recall properly rather than someone who's shocked into recounting some shit they saw at the movies instead of what actually happened.

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    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Would not a lot of the reason behind men posturing rather than actually fighting be because we are naturally more aggressive and so we'd reach the shouting and posturing stage, do that and then move on to violence where as females (the vicious things that they are) kind of skip the posturing and go right into removing your kidneys with a fork?

    Oh and in reference to animals, they don't contemplate psychology either so perhaps violence is a complicated form of distraction and is actually unavailable to our less cerebral cousins?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I would say that's general to both sexes, just as an aside I would say that mankind sucks in comparison with other species, there arent many sadistic or masochistic lions or tigers, most animal kingdom aggression is "get the f**k out of my space". I say most because I know about the cases of sea cows torturing dolphins and "speciesism" between closely related animal kingdoms. Also I never seen a bored dog or cat decide violence would be an interesting diversion.
    That's true. Dogs are usually too busy humping your leg and/or each other, regardless of sex.

    But seriously, it's the reason we don't label animals as "evil" while we do assign that label to people. Animals eat because they are hungry, or kill because someone is violating their space, etc., but otherwise don't really care. They're just following instinct. People make more complex choices than that.

    Specific to the differences in violence between the sexes I have seen some of the difference CzeCze has talked about, when women get violent it can be much more no holds barred than men, while men can be and are violent to strangers or other men I've encountered a lot of women being violent towards people they're caring for, like their kids (there's some shitty hiearchies of domestic violence, guy feels bullied at work or on bus home, hits/bullies wife, wife hits bullies the children, children bully their peers). What's your views? This pretty much generalisation but it could be an interesting discussion.
    I would just sum it up as that, for men, violence is often impersonal, but for women it often gets very personal. So when women lay down the smack, oh, it's very very ugly. Guys kind of just posture, threaten, sometimes beat each other up, then move on, as the typical path. About the only guys that make it personal are the office shooters, but even then it's not really personal because they're usually attacking "the establishment" or the "social structure" by shooting these faces they've imposed on those issues; but for women, if they hate someone even to physically attack her, it's typically because they really hate her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    've witnessed this, I've not experienced it very often, in a lot of volatile situations, even if I've raised my voice or appear to others to be threatening, I enter into a sort of Zen state, I'm not uncomfortable, in fact its almost as though life has become life at its most clear, most plain and simple, what needs to be done to end the violence quickly should be done, whatever that is. There's people who're good friends of mine who've said they hate me when I get like this because its hannibal lector like or something.

    Although one aspect of this is that its not like what younger people might describe as "being hard", although some of the ones I've worked with hate the way I can remain calm under pressure or when they're trying to stress people out, its not that, there's two people I work with who I was walking out through crowds of people to their cars, we passed a really bad street fight, like I mean two idiots with torn bloodied clothes pile driving each other into the blood spattered pavements and on that occasion they were shocked by how unphased I was by this happening and how calculating I was about, identifying the routes out past them and away from the ruck to safety.

    On another occasion witnessing some other violence a friend of mine asked me about standing calmly watching what was happening, I told them that I was preparing to be a good witness and recall properly rather than someone who's shocked into recounting some shit they saw at the movies instead of what actually happened.
    That just sounds like T thinking to me (a detached assessment). I've had it happen too in times of crisis, where I just go with my natural inclinations that see everything in the situation clearly and resolve it as neatly as possible. I only feel the emotions afterward. I kind of don't understand people who fall apart. Watch "The Edge" -- it still amazes me how, in time of immediate danger, one of the men drops into the crystallized resolution mode being described here, while the other emotionally falls to pieces, and the responses seem very authentic.

    I think those crisis situations can actually be liberating to a more T mindset, because all the social conventions, emotional complexity, and whatever else is stripped away: The situation must simply be dealt with, immediately, without any of those other concerns, to maximize practical outcome, and so a very "T" approach is perfect.

    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    In that case, i'm a total woman because I don't talk much, do sounds or follow rules if I am attacked.
    It's completely different from martial arts or anything controlled. Some people, when attacked (or attacking...), just do what it takes to beat the other person.
    It feels like life or death in that place in space and time, I assure you. There's nothing logical or controlled about it. It's primal.
    To a large extent, this is also what wins most fights unless you're up against someone with full contact or combat close quarters fighting knowledge and experience.
    I don't see that as contradictory to what is being said.

    It's a "fight or flight" response, totally. You drop into survival mode, and all social conventions and stipulations and genteel considerations go right out the window, because that's what maximizes survival. Not much different than responding to a shark attack, or that guy cutting off his arm to get unpinned from that large boulder, or any other "logical" response where you just do what you have to do. Survival is key, and if you hold something back, you might not survive. There's little room for abstract thinking or empathy when you are fighting for your life.
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  6. #6
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Dogs are actually very intelligent, and although they have an almost natural need for loyalty, which means they are overall considered good. They are capable of complex forms of revenge, torture and other forms of 'evil' behaviour. Dogs show characteristics that are as deep and varying as the characteristics in men.

    And I believe most animals are capable of such intelligent behaviour, but in the wild, life is relatively simple for most animals. Dogs show such diversity, because they live in such diverse, human created, environments. But they can keep up with it, which shows just how intelligent they really are.

    And what's this about dogs just humping legs? I hump more legs than most dogs I know.

    Then again, I'm one of the least violent people I know. Maybe humping legs is the cure for us men? *ponders deeply while scanning the environment for legs to hump*
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    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    The posturing and such among male in our species is necessary. Other animals have similar ways of handling confrontation because its better on the whole for the species when males meet up and be agressive for there be as little death as possible. There are a couple different types of fights, the staged and showy 'I'm the alpha male' fight, and the 'fight for your life' fight.

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    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    I think some of it may be that male yelling/posturing is seen as fighting whereas the female version of posturing isn't. So fighting only gets noticed in females when it gets "extreme".
    -end of thread-

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