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  1. #101
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    My family never said.. does not equal an absence of social teaching. How many people does it take to start a trend?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #102
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    My family never said.. does not equal an absence of social teaching. How many people does it take to start a trend?
    For the love of God, this is such a simple and obvious concept that I don't understand why it even needs to be said.

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  3. #103
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    1: where is the social teaching? If it was so obvious, you should be able to give concrete examples.

    2: a social teaching is not a social construct.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

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    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  4. #104
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    it is true that there is no police force enforcing gender roles, but none the less, societies in the past have been responsible for more passive repression and control. also, it is true that it is the weakness of the women conforming to the stereotype/proposed social role just to fit in, however, the more women submit to these gender expectations, the more they become reinforced. in this way, women who reject socially imposed gender roles are suffering the consequences of previous women's passivity and weakness (via constant ridicule for their behaviors, beliefs and choices). social expectation can develop into a powerful force in a very short time because of this phenomenon.

    PS: that being said, women in america are currently not suffering from societal opression at all. if anything, men are. aggressive tendencies, dominance, passion and desire for powerful should be encouraged and properly channeled, not punished like they are in modern american society. faith, hope and charity are for the weak, the poor and the naive. confidence, charisma, passion, lust for power (in it's less excessive forms) and attitude are superior because they incline individuals to be productive and successful, and these are all masculine qualities. therefore, anyone who doesn't possess at least some masculine qualities is a pathetic looser who doesn't deserve my respect.

    before you label me as a chovenistic bigot, I admire feminine qualities too (in fact, I find them much more pleasant and enjoyable to be around), and I don't go around saying "look at that guy, he's such a weak pussy" (because thinking one can evaluate someone that quickly would be both assumptive extremely ignorant). i simply believe that anyone (man or woman) with no mental fortitude has no economic value, therefore, I will loose my respect for anyone who proves themself to fit this description.
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  5. #105
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    ^I've never heard such bs.
    Why is there is still such disparity of wages between women and men?
    Why is it that women in academic and managerial positions, have to fight for respect when it's a God given right for men?
    Why is there positive conatations to being a Tom boy and negative connatations to being a sissy boy?
    Why is it not accepatable practise to be a house husband?
    Why is there a number of less than ten percentage, of women in governmental posistions and top CEO posistions? Don't get me started on the rich lists.
    Spare us the woh is me routine please. You are never going to be rejected for a loan based on the fact you are female of child bearing age and single (it's happened to me - and I was told that.)

    I'm stepping away from this thread now. Some of the things that have been stated make me very angry and frustrated.
    I will post again when calmer.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

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  6. #106
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalViolet View Post
    ^I've never heard such bs.
    1) Why is there is still such disparity of wages between women and men?
    2) Why is it that women in academic and managerial positions, have to fight for respect when it's a God given right for men?
    3) Why is there positive conatations to being a Tom boy and negative connatations to being a sissy boy?
    4) Why is it not accepatable practise to be a house husband?
    5) Why is there a number of less than ten percentage, of women in governmental posistions and top CEO posistions? Don't get me started on the rich lists.
    6) Spare us the woh is me routine please. You are never going to be rejected for a loan based on the fact you are female of child bearing age and single (it's happened to me - and I was told that.)
    1) one reason is that men on average work more hours than women (I will provide the statistic if I can find it). I can't say if this accounts for all of it, but I'm sure it's a factor
    2) I have no idea what you are talking about here. do you think men just magically get respect? I feel like I almost have to force people to respect me because they assume that males are all incompetent children until age 35.
    3)
    - this is a case for society favoring women, not men. women are allowed the social freedom to be both masculine and feminine; men are punished for both
    - if feminine qualities were frowned upon societally, they would be punished in both genders
    - of course society values masculine qualities. masculine qualities are economically productive.
    4) currently, it's no less exceptable than being a house wife
    5) because men in general are more ambitious. how many women do you know with personalities like donald trump, napoleon bonapart or clark gable? i would be impressed if you knew 3. don't get me wrong, I love women genuinely strong, masculine women like Jillian Michaels and Princess Leia, but they are the minority, just as naturally feminine and artistic men Shakespeare are the minority. men have higher testosterone and are more likely to be NTs in MBTI and 8s in the Enneagram. men are also hardwired to want to be providers. women can certainly choose and succeed at being ambitious, but men have the edge biologically. frankly, to say that the brain chemistry of men and women is naturally the same is naive, dismissive and idealistic
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  7. #107
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalViolet View Post
    Why is there is still such disparity of wages between women and men?
    Women are usually less competitive and place their family and personal life before their career, that implies boss to pay them less a priori. Of course, when a woman prove that they can be competitive and careerist, they own as much money as men.

    Why is it that women in academic and managerial positions, have to fight for respect when it's a God given right for men?
    What you say is stupid because men had always to fight for respect when they advanced new ideas and tryed to impose themselves in buisness. Socrate, Galilée, Christophe Colomb, Rockefeller, do that remind you something?

    Why is there positive conatations to being a Tom boy and negative connatations to being a sissy boy?
    Because Tom boy girl are strong, dynamic and assertive, while sissy boys are weak, fragile and pathetic.

    Why is it not accepatable practise to be a house husband?
    Because house husbands are finacially dependent from their wife. Also, 50 years ago, when there was no dishwasher, washing machine, and vacuum, to stay at home and keep up the house and care about kids was a hard work wich need that one person stay at home, but currently, a man who stay at home would essentialy be a lazy guy who's screwing around while her wife is working hard to nurish him. So, except if the husband stay at home for a lucrative activity, he is pathetic.

    Why is there a number of less than ten percentage, of women in governmental posistions and top CEO posistions? Don't get me started on the rich lists.
    Because it's easyer for a woman who want to be rich to marry a rich man than achieve wealth herself.

    Spare us the woh is me routine please. You are never going to be rejected for a loan based on the fact you are female of child bearing age and single (it's happened to me - and I was told that.)
    That has nothing to do with a social construct. It's just that bankers are not prone to grant a loan to a person in a too much fragile situation. Man or woman, whatever.

    I will post again when calmer.
    Have you your periods?
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

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    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  8. #108
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Low blow mate about the menstrating comment. Actually completely out of bounds. I believe I have insulted no-one personally, just ideas. You made a personal comment. I will not enter a personal slinging match with you. End of discussion.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

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  9. #109
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    It was simply a joke. Not an attack. I see you are very susceptible.


    I will not enter a personal slinging match with you
    It would be very hard anyway, since you manifestely don't have any argument, as expected.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

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    E=60% S=55% T=70% P=80%

    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  10. #110
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    PS: that being said, women in america are currently not suffering from societal opression at all.
    Actually, what we can observe about the pas 40 years, where there was not societals oprresion, is that gender differences were not abolished but reinforced. From the male side, it gave us Jack Nicholson, Charlie Sheen, Charles Bukowski and Mike Tyson, from the female side it gave us Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Pamela Anderson and Paris Hilton. Even people who deliberately tried to be adrogygn like David Bowie, Iggy Pop or Patti Smith essentially came across as masculine or feminine. Proof that gender diferences are ultimatley marked.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

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    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

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