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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perch420 View Post
    So we should let thousands of autistic babies be born in the slight chance that some of them will be savants? What a bunch of bullshit. 90% of autistics are a huge burden on their families and on society; they are prone to violence and are rarely able to support themselves. I'm not saying they should be killed, but bringing in more autistics into this world would not be a good idea.
    And what about those who are only slightly autistic? Having Aspergers has made parts of my life difficult, but that's fucking life, and under no circumstances would I ever wish to re-life my life without Aspergers. My condition which you consider defective has essentially molded me into what I am today and has made me stronger and more unique. Not to metion that many famous individuals, like Albert Einstein, had Aspergers.

    Because my ideas are correct, whereas your ideas are incorrect.
    And what evidence do you have to back up this assertion? You can't just come into an argument and say that your ideas are correct without strong evidence to prove so. And don't say that all your earlier arguments count as they have been agued against by others and thus do not entirely prove you point.

    Sure, there are some nice people with a low IQ, just like there are some bad people with a high IQ, but again, on average, a high IQ is correlated with things like inquisitiveness, compassion, open-mindedness, and so on. All those traits are beneficial to the species, so it's not just IQ that I'm concerned about, it's also the things that IQ affects.
    Who ever said that high IQ was correlated with inquisitiveness, compassion, and open-mindedness? Not to mention that correlation does not equal cuasation, thus just because a bunch of smart people seem that way doesn't mean they are. Also in my experince it's those with lower IQ's, those who have had to put up with years of bullshit, are more likely to appreciate generosity, inquisitiveness, compassion, kindness, and open-mindedness, because they learn how important these things truly are to living a happy and harmonious life.

    Also, in our society it seems that those with low intelligence outbreed those with high intelligence. This means that the average IQ will decline in the next few decades, which is bad news for the species.
    Um dude, life has always been like that; the masses often have average IQ's while only a tiny percantage of any given population has genius IQ's. Not to mention, the IQ's of humans in general is rising, that is if you were to compare the average citizen with an IQ of 100 today with individuals from the past, then the modern day man would always be slightly smarter.

    I do know more than you about this topic. You just asked me to show you studies on heritability of IQ and aggression, which you were unaware of beforehand. Why is this relevant anyway?
    Oh wow, you know some studies about heritability of IQ and aggression, but that's not what I was referring to; I was talking about the moral problems and level of mature understanding in such a delicate subject, something ou clearly have proven that you don't know that well at all. And considering this is a debate, then this entire matter is completely relevant.

    Yeah, is child molestation that big a problem? I mean, how many people really molest children? Not many I don't think.
    And you think that eugenics is going to solve the problem of child molestation? Don't make me laugh.

  2. #82
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    look down
    “Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” - G. K. Chesterton

  3. #83
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Idealist View Post
    And what about those who are only slightly autistic? Having Aspergers has made parts of my life difficult, but that's fucking life, and under no circumstances would I ever wish to re-life my life without Aspergers. My condition which you consider defective has essentially molded me into what I am today and has made me stronger and more unique. Not to metion that many famous individuals, like Albert Einstein, had Aspergers.

    You wouldn't want to re-live your life without a disability? I don't know what to say; that's pretty stupid of you. Deafness certainly shapes people into who they are and makes them more unique and strengthens their other senses, but deafness is certainly worse than non-deafness, wouldn't you agree? Likewise with autism spectrum disorders. Also, Albert Einstein did not have Aspergers.

    And what evidence do you have to back up this assertion? You can't just come into an argument and say that your ideas are correct without strong evidence to prove so. And don't say that all your earlier arguments count as they have been agued against by others and thus do not entirely prove you point.

    Logic and reasoning. My arguments are logical, whereas you don't have any arguments at all.

    Who ever said that high IQ was correlated with inquisitiveness, compassion, and open-mindedness? Not to mention that correlation does not equal cuasation, thus just because a bunch of smart people seem that way doesn't mean they are. Also in my experince it's those with lower IQ's, those who have had to put up with years of bullshit, are more likely to appreciate generosity, inquisitiveness, compassion, kindness, and open-mindedness, because they learn how important these things truly are to living a happy and harmonious life.

    Why do I care about your experiences? Use statistics and data instead of anecdotal nonsense.

    Um dude, life has always been like that; the masses often have average IQ's while only a tiny percantage of any given population has genius IQ's. Not to mention, the IQ's of humans in general is rising, that is if you were to compare the average citizen with an IQ of 100 today with individuals from the past, then the modern day man would always be slightly smarter.



    Oh wow, you know some studies about heritability of IQ and aggression, but that's not what I was referring to; I was talking about the moral problems and level of mature understanding in such a delicate subject, something ou clearly have proven that you don't know that well at all. And considering this is a debate, then this entire matter is completely relevant.


    I'm much more mature than you, both emotionally and intellectually. What does this have to do with anything? And don't you mean "ir"relevant? Do you even know what "relevant" means? Christ, I learned that word in 5th grade. If you want to pretend that you're somehow more "mature" than me, you should at least attempt to show it.

    What a bunch of self-aggrandizing horseshit. Where's your "mature understanding" of this topic that you talk so much about? All you've posted is irrelevant, poorly spelled, badly written nonsense and banal personal attacks. Are you seriously not aware at how pretentious you appear to be? Jesus.


    And you think that eugenics is going to solve the problem of child molestation? Don't make me laugh.

    What? I used the child molestation example to show how silly your argument was. Do you even understand what I'm writing? Is English not your native language? It's not fucking mine either but I do a lot better job at comprehension than you do.
    sdaf
    “Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” - G. K. Chesterton

  4. #84
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I dont understand your way of quoting stuff, you dont do it the way its done normally but if you just said to Savage Idealist "I'm much more mature than you, both emotionally and intellectually", then you are wrong.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  5. #85
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perch420 View Post
    So we should let thousands of autistic babies be born in the slight chance that some of them will be savants? What a bunch of bullshit.
    I love how you state this like this isn't what we do all the time right now. "So we should let people just give birth whenever they want?!! Bullshit!!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Patches View Post
    Oh. Well that settles it then. :rolli:

    Do you really think you're qualified to play babysitter to the whole world?
    Probably the best thing said in the thread so far.

    In my experience, a lot of people with high IQ's tend to be douchenozzles who are full of themselves. But I had the pleasure of meeting several individuals who were heavily involved in Mensa... Anyone who hyperfocuses on IQ as much as those guys has an awful superiority complex. It's not endearing. And a lot of blue-collar class people are very kind. But I grew up in a small tight-knit community full of those type of people. So naturally that is how I feel. But in reality, it's probably somewhere in the middle of our respective views. There are probably a pretty even number of jerks distributed through every social class/IQ level.
    I hadn't even factored the "we need people to work cohesively to make things work in the world" bit to this debate either. A bunch of smart jerks out for themselves would never survive as long as nice, sweet people that work together.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patches View Post
    Genes don't exist as individual components. They're intertwined. Turn off 1 problem gene, and you can turn off 10 good ones with it, and change the functionality of 50 others. Gene's don't exist like islands.
    Even so, I think focusing on therapies for genetics are the way to go instead of trying to prevent things altogether. That's like saying "Lets never drive cars because statistically speaking people are awful drivers!" Eugenics is a bit extreme when it comes to humans... For the most part. It is still an interesting topic, but I think the debate keeps degrading with Perch's emotional outbursts.

    SO! I'll start pointing it towards you. Do you see people actually going along with this in ANY way in the future for any reason?
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  6. #86
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    Originally posted by Perch420
    You wouldn't want to re-live your life without a disability? I don't know what to say; that's pretty stupid of you. Deafness certainly shapes people into who they are and makes them more unique and strengthens their other senses, but deafness is certainly worse than non-deafness, wouldn't you agree? Likewise with autism spectrum disorders. Also, Albert Einstein did not have Aspergers.
    Excuse me? You learly don't understand the concept of sacrifice for certain gain do you? By having my social skills and other parts of me weakened, I have become stronger in different ways, or as Friedrich Nietzsche says "That which does not kill me makes me stronger". the way your seeing it though (as you do everything) is a strictly utilitarian perspective. Also, Einstein did have Aspergers, and I know the man well, since I read a 600 page biography about him (writen by Walter Isaacson).

    Logic and reasoning. My arguments are logical, whereas you don't have any arguments at all.
    Your logic is weak, and evidence hold a certain level of credibility that logic cannot.

    Why do I care about your experiences? Use statistics and data instead of anecdotal nonsense.
    This coming from the guy who automatically thinks he's right. Personally statistics and data don't mean shit when I've encountered the actual aspects of decent and compassionate retarded people in my life; I trust my experince over your statistics any day beacuse I know theres more certainty in them than what some shitty correlation chart shows.

    I'm much more mature than you, both emotionally and intellectually.
    rofl

    What does this have to do with anything? And don't you mean "ir"relevant? Do you even know what "relevant" means? Christ, I learned that word in 5th grade. If you want to pretend that you're somehow more "mature" than me, you should at least attempt to show it.
    You're calling me out for a typo? Really?

    What a bunch of self-aggrandizing horseshit. Where's your "mature understanding" of this topic that you talk so much about? All you've posted is irrelevant, poorly spelled, badly written nonsense and banal personal attacks. Are you seriously not aware at how pretentious you appear to be? Jesus.
    All I've done is critique every claim that you made thus far, on the grounds that it is both unethical and subjectively based on you own opinions. Or should I write theoretical scenarios describing in detail how awful eugenics in society would be?

    What? I used the child molestation example to show how silly your argument was. Do you even understand what I'm writing? Is English not your native language? It's not fucking mine either but I do a lot better job at comprehension than you do.
    Refresh my memory (because I don't feel like having to scroll through the thread again), did you not mention that child molestation was inherently a genetic trait, or that child molester should be sterilized?

  7. #87
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    Can you explain this further?
    Well, I suspect that, in a nutshell, we're domesticating ourselves.

    There has been some interesting research into exactly what 'domestication' means. In particular, the Russian Silver Fox experiment found that, in part, 'domestication' means the persistence of juvenile behavioral traits into adulthood. Such juvenile traits in animals include submission and a high tolerance for the presence of humans.

    Adult behavioral traits in wild animals include a low tolerance for the presence of humans, absence of submissive behaviors, aggressiveness when cornered, unpredictability, and in short all the behaviors that make wild animals 'wild.' When humans behave that way, we call it 'antisocial behavior.' Our current society suppresses individuals that practice such behavior, and supports those who do not.

    So, in a rather rough-around-the-edges fashion and without a great deal of efficiency, we're domesticating ourselves. Or so I suspect. If this is so, look for more juvenile behaviors persisting into adulthood in future generations.

  8. #88
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Well, I suspect that, in a nutshell, we're domesticating ourselves.

    There has been some interesting research into exactly what 'domestication' means. In particular, the Russian Silver Fox experiment found that, in part, 'domestication' means the persistence of juvenile behavioral traits into adulthood. Such juvenile traits in animals include submission and a high tolerance for the presence of humans.

    Adult behavioral traits in wild animals include a low tolerance for the presence of humans, absence of submissive behaviors, aggressiveness when cornered, unpredictability, and in short all the behaviors that make wild animals 'wild.' When humans behave that way, we call it 'antisocial behavior.' Our current society suppresses individuals that practice such behavior, and supports those who do not.

    So, in a rather rough-around-the-edges fashion and without a great deal of efficiency, we're domesticating ourselves. Or so I suspect. If this is so, look for more juvenile behaviors persisting into adulthood in future generations.
    So souless Oberon, here you are.

    Yeah I think you're right, although there's high correlations between the juvenile and anti-social when its the behaviour of adults in question.

  9. #89
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    When humans behave that way, we call it 'antisocial behavior.' Our current society suppresses individuals that practice such behavior, and supports those who do not.
    See I still don't get this, the more "civilised" we become, the more passive we are, the less we seem to breed or so it seems looking at demographics.

    The populations that exhibit the most "antisocial" behaviours are also the ones with the highest birth rates aren't they?
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  10. #90
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    I saw a documentary about those Russian foxes. Thay are pretty cute...
    So do you think that human kind has become more docile and controllable in recent history? How recently, and through the action of what forces?
    I just watched a documentary about ancient India, and they were quite civilized; they developed art, philosophy, cosmology, medicine, etc; all of the traits of high culture...so the changes you allude to don't seem to have been in effect at that time.

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