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  1. #71
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    what's wrong with you?
    That's what I want to know.

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Dear mods:

    Plz change Perch420's name to Skynet.

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    LOL!
    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    Natural creation = desire.... ?

    Sadism and pyromania are not genetic

    You are trying to set a criteria on the value of a life. You make the assumption that by wiping out certain genes, things will be better. How can you decide what is better for another? Good, Bad, Better, all relative. Are there good genes you'd be wiping out with the bad? What of that potential? Most people understand one can not decide for another on these things.... WHY would one's view of these things trump anothers?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Not sure if trolling.... Why is this guy always so ambiguous?
    He could just be an immaturate teenager. He is only 15.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perch420 View Post
    Nobody responded to this so I'll post it again.

    Say you have a disease that doesn't affect you, but makes it so your children will be under excruciating pain for every second of their lives. Would it not be unethical to have children?

    This is an extreme case, but what's the difference between this and Huntington's or Autism other than severity? Is it not immoral to have children who are predisposed to those diseases as well?
    Well, if I knew my child was truly going to be in excruciating pain their whole lives with no hope of means of treating it, then I would opt not to have children and hope others opted out as well. In that case, I would deem it unethical. But in real life it isn't so black and white. The pain isn't constant, some treatments do exist. The disease isn't cured but the symptoms can be made more manageable. Most importantly people can still lead happy and productive lives in spite of the disease.

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I think I'm going to submit to the group that we have already been involved in a sort of unwitting eugenics program.

    For the last two centuries we have been (to a degree) selectively breeding for those who can adapt to technology. People who succeed at this have the best chance at reproducing, and people who fail at it have a reduced chance.

    We've also been breeding (increasingly selectively) for all the traits that make succeessful city-dwellers.

    But this has been simply through trends in the population, not through any program of central planning.
    What about all those people from third world countries without much means for technology having a large amount of children?
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  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post
    What about all those people from third world countries without much means for technology having a large amount of children?

  3. #73
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_World_As_Will View Post
    What baffles me is that people here continue to fuel the desires of an ambiguous troll... are you people that bored?
    Troll or not, the subject is posted and I thought it was interesting to discuss. I don't want to lower the merits of talking about eugenics just because the person happens to be negative.

    Do you feel this subject isn't even worth discussion?
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  4. #74
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    We're going there, aren't we? I mean, again, sir?

    Yeah, people like Temple Grandin and Dawn Prince-Hughes are such a burden on society. :rolli:
    So we should let thousands of autistic babies be born in the slight chance that some of them will be savants? What a bunch of bullshit. 90% of autistics are a huge burden on their families and on society; they are prone to violence and are rarely able to support themselves. I'm not saying they should be killed, but bringing in more autistics into this world would not be a good idea.
    “Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” - G. K. Chesterton

  5. #75
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Idealist View Post
    If you can't even imagine the possible problems that your ideas could create then you shouldn't be arguing for them.

    And fuck grammer usage.



    And you're right because? What the fuck makes you so special?

    Because my ideas are correct, whereas your ideas are incorrect.

    The incomprehensible jibberirsh was meant to be a slight joke, like when one is baffled by something so much they can't even get a word out to form an opinion because they are so shocked. Also you have not proved that eugenics is ethically sound nor morally imperative, all you've done is spout a worthless subjective opinion that has poor basis in reasoning.



    So IQ is so important to you that you would actually advocate eugenics? Tell me why is IQ that damn important to you? Cause some of the nicest people I've ever met were mentally retarded and some of the worst people I've ever met were genius. So no saying 'people with IQ's are better'.

    Sure, there are some nice people with a low IQ, just like there are some bad people with a high IQ, but again, on average, a high IQ is correlated with things like inquisitiveness, compassion, open-mindedness, and so on. All those traits are beneficial to the species, so it's not just IQ that I'm concerned about, it's also the things that IQ affects.

    Also, in our society it seems that those with low intelligence outbreed those with high intelligence. This means that the average IQ will decline in the next few decades, which is bad news for the species.


    No, you don't know more than me, and that fact is relevant to everything we are discussing.

    I do know more than you about this topic. You just asked me to show you studies on heritability of IQ and aggression, which you were unaware of beforehand. Why is this relevant anyway?

    Ugh. Honestly how often does this occur in society that eugenics actually becomes necessary? Last I checked ex-cons breeding wasn't a problem.

    Yeah, is child molestation that big a problem? I mean, how many people really molest children? Not many I don't think.

    Yep.
    asdf
    “Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” - G. K. Chesterton

  6. #76
    Senior Member knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perch420 View Post
    Eugenics is defined as the betterment of the human gene pool through selective breeding.

    The fact that genes play a significant role in behavior, intelligence, and illnesses such as cancer and cystic fibrosis is pretty well established. What would be so wrong with sterilizing people with mental retardation or serious inheritable diseases? Is it not cruel to let a child be born with a 90% chance of getting, say, Huntington's disease?

    If I were in charge, I would first sterilize all violent criminals. Yes, there is a small percentage of people in federal prison who are innocent, but the vast majority are not. Raising a child is one of the most demanding things a person can do, and a violent offender will more than likely not be able to stimulate the child's curiosity in a positive way or teach them moral lessons or anything else of the sort. This creates a cycle of crime and poverty that is difficult or impossible to break out of.

    The mentally retarded or borderline retarded should be sterilized as well. The boundary should be at an IQ of 80; if yours is below 80, you will be sterilized, and if it's higher, then you won't be sterilized. Intelligence has a strong genetic component and people with low intelligence will probably be unable to raise moral and intelligent children. I realize IQ is faulty and arbitrary, and saying that a person with an IQ of 122 is more "intelligent" than someone with an IQ of 120 is ridiculous. What isn't ridiculous is saying that a person with an IQ of 100 is clearly more intelligent than someone with an IQ of 80.

    If you want to have kids, fine; there are plenty of them up for adoption all over the world. People have to realize that there are things more important than their own personal desires; the maintenance of the human gene pool is one of them.
    how about manipulating peoples dna so the finer qualities are brought out and removing the problem ones?

  7. #77
    The Duchess of Oddity Queen Kat's Avatar
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    It's a taboo. That's what's wrong with eugenics. Eugenics is wrong because we're not supposed to speak about it positively. It's against our population's Fi.

    I mean, seriously, we apply eugenics all the time. We apply it on pigs, on cows, on chickens, on horses, yes, even on dogs, to the point of being catastrophic, but we don't talk about it and we all just say it's evil, because it's a taboo. PERIOD.
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  8. #78
    Klingon Warrior Princess Patches's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perch420 View Post
    Because my ideas are correct, whereas your ideas are incorrect.
    Oh. Well that settles it then. :rolli:

    Do you really think you're qualified to play babysitter to the whole world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perch420
    Sure, there are some nice people with a low IQ, just like there are some bad people with a high IQ, but again, on average, a high IQ is correlated with things like inquisitiveness, compassion, open-mindedness, and so on. All those traits are beneficial to the species, so it's not just IQ that I'm concerned about, it's also the things that IQ affects.
    In my experience, a lot of people with high IQ's tend to be douchenozzles who are full of themselves. But I had the pleasure of meeting several individuals who were heavily involved in Mensa... Anyone who hyperfocuses on IQ as much as those guys has an awful superiority complex. It's not endearing. And a lot of blue-collar class people are very kind. But I grew up in a small tight-knit community full of those type of people. So naturally that is how I feel. But in reality, it's probably somewhere in the middle of our respective views. There are probably a pretty even number of jerks distributed through every social class/IQ level.
    “Everybody has a secret world inside of them. All of the people of the world, I mean everybody. No matter how dull and boring they are on the outside, inside
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  9. #79
    Klingon Warrior Princess Patches's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knight View Post
    how about manipulating peoples dna so the finer qualities are brought out and removing the problem ones?
    Genes don't exist as individual components. They're intertwined. Turn off 1 problem gene, and you can turn off 10 good ones with it, and change the functionality of 50 others. Gene's don't exist like islands.
    “Everybody has a secret world inside of them. All of the people of the world, I mean everybody. No matter how dull and boring they are on the outside, inside
    them they've all got unimaginable, magnificent, wonderful, stupid, amazing worlds. Not just one world. Hundreds of them. Thousands maybe.” -Neil Gaiman

    ~

  10. #80
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    I agree with the sentiment that a lot of "intelligent" people tend to be pretentious and embarrassing to be around.

    You're probably right and coercive sterilization of low IQ people isn't a very good idea. Something still needs to be done to combat, or at least alleviate the effects of dysgenics. Maybe a one child per family policy?

    I still think violent criminals and people with serious inheritable disorders shouldn't be able to reproduce.
    “Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” - G. K. Chesterton

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