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  1. #121
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    So you are seriously crediting the economic decline of Western civilization on the introduction of peace, femininism, liberalism, and humanism into the culture?

    That's... interesting.
    Factual economic trend: Peace = economic prosperity.

  2. #122
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Oh, I'm capable of seeing some merit on both ends. It's more a matter of balance, I would think. Unfortunately, we don't get balance in the micromoment, because one power or another is always taking charge and thus it's vascillating; hopefully it all just averages out in terms of cumulative effect.
    Isn't that half the point though? If we're trying to do disparate things to suit all parties in some great big hug experiment then we're not likely to be as successful as other less warm and cuddly but more efficient and ruthless organisations?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  3. #123
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Factual economic trend: Peace = economic prosperity.
    lmao
    “Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” - G. K. Chesterton

  4. #124
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Isn't that half the point though? If we're trying to do disparate things to suit all parties in some great big hug experiment then we're not likely to be as successful as other less warm and cuddly but more efficient and ruthless organisations?
    Why are you guys basing your arguments on extremes?

    You can be supportive of individuals and sensitive to their needs without being a "great big hug experiment."
    You can be hard-hitting and decisive without being ruthless asshats.

    The ruthless side might seem better suited early on, yet the problem is that it breed internal disloyalty because the prevailing mentality means that people cannot be certain their commitment to the group will be reciprocated. The affirming side is more cohesive but has more possibility for exploitation by selfish members.

    The most resilient groups will likely contain aspects of both.

    This isn't rocket science, btw; this stuff is constantly being dealt with by the corporations: How to be inclusive and affirming while still being effective and accomplishing the company's mission.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #125
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Why are you guys basing your arguments on extremes?

    You can be supportive of individuals and sensitive to their needs without being a "great big hug experiment."
    You can be hard-hitting and decisive without being ruthless asshats.

    The ruthless side might seem better suited early on, yet the problem is that it breed internal disloyalty because the prevailing mentality means that people cannot be certain their commitment to the group will be reciprocated. The affirming side is more cohesive but has more possibility for exploitation by selfish members.

    The most resilient groups will likely contain aspects of both.

    This isn't rocket science, btw; this stuff is constantly being dealt with by the corporations: How to be inclusive and affirming while still being effective and accomplishing the company's mission.
    The implementation of what you speak evades most CEOs and directors. What makes you think that the bunch of over aggrandised amateurs that make up politics can do any better?

    Harmony is not usually attained because it's different for each person so we tend to be pulled by the loudest, the biggest, the most imminent. Hence you get great big hugs followed by a savage kick in the ass... as you yourself were speaking of before.

    I agree that a balance is best, I always do. I just doubt the capability of people to actually achieve it or even to really put any effort into aiming for it.

    Which is why we need the savage aliens... I thought that was obvious?

    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #126
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    Meh, we do not need breeding programs. We just need more hardship in order to not grow decadent.
    That's a typical Lamarckian fallacy. Hardship won't change our genetic makeup, it will just change the performance of our muscles and/or our brain. So it's not eu-genetics, it's eu-trophia or something similar.

    In my opinion, all great empires/civilizations grow decadent and weak in their final stage before they disappear.
    Sure. That's not a problem, that's just how humanity goes on.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  7. #127
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    chi è Lamarck e che tipo di una disciplina, la sociologia? Hai studiato? Suona eccitante

    [ I am trieing to improve my italian ]
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  8. #128
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    So you are seriously crediting the economic decline of Western civilization on the introduction of peace, femininism, liberalism, and humanism into the culture?

    That's... interesting.
    Why stop at economic?

  9. #129
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Why are you guys basing your arguments on extremes?

    You can be supportive of individuals and sensitive to their needs without being a "great big hug experiment."
    You can be hard-hitting and decisive without being ruthless asshats.

    The ruthless side might seem better suited early on, yet the problem is that it breed internal disloyalty because the prevailing mentality means that people cannot be certain their commitment to the group will be reciprocated. The affirming side is more cohesive but has more possibility for exploitation by selfish members.

    The most resilient groups will likely contain aspects of both.

    This isn't rocket science, btw; this stuff is constantly being dealt with by the corporations: How to be inclusive and affirming while still being effective and accomplishing the company's mission.
    History remembers only the ruthless asshats.

  10. #130
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Do your boxer shorts have little gladiators embossed on them?
    They're black, but it sounds like a splendid idea.

    ... And yeah. Why stop at "economic decline". Western civilization is killing itself with these ideas that are born out of a life too easy.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

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