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  1. #111
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Meh, we do not need breeding programs. We just need more hardship in order to not grow decadent.

    An example of an effect of that we have grown way too soft is in order, I believe.
    This (the decadent softness) has more immediate repercussions than some long-distant genetic stuff.
    The reason Asia is running laps around us economy-wise is because they are a lot harder than us nowadays.
    Stuff needs to be more like they were before all the peace/feminism/liberal/humanist-bullshit started to be the norm.
    Might makes right, sadly, and if we don't want to get f***ed in the a** by Asia, we need to be pretty nasty.
    Why we need to be pretty nasty now is because of the same reason that... Let me do a little allegory:
    If you clean a little every day, your place will be a clean and functional environment. If you skip it for a year and just pile crap upon crap, you're in for a dirty job, because sooner or later you'll have to clean.
    Even if "to clean" means that you have to tear down the house with a bulldozer because it's stacked with shit and germs to the rafters.
    It's the same thing with international economic balance, and we're soon up to the rafters I believe.
    If we (the west) had continued to be top dog and clamp down hard on anyone who tried to stick out, firmly but fairly gently, we would not be here today.
    Something always has to give, that's as good as a natural law.
    It's not pretty, nice, fluffy or otherwise even slightly pleasant, but staying on top of the food chain is hard work.
    If we're not even going to try, we might as well drop dead now.
    Ultimately, it's all about contrasts. For there to be good, there needs to be bad.
    For you to have a good life, usually you will need to be a bit bad. Even if you yourself does nothing, you might be a part of a country or other group that is, for example, exploitative.

    I'm not unaffected by the humanist stuff at all. I even don't like what I am saying, emotionally.
    But there is a word for what the western world is doing right now, and that is "unsustainable business model".
    We can't go on like this.

    If you didn't get what this has to do with Eugenics...
    The thought that started this thread is a bit misguided, in my opinion, but it is just a symptom of that a great deal is wrong with our society.
    In that, the meaning of the OP was pretty much right. Society is in an economical and social decline of, I think, unsurpassed magnitude.
    Symptoms are showing all over.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  2. #112
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    Meh, we do not need breeding programs. We just need more hardship in order to not grow decadent.
    Vicious alien invaders! Perfect for not only ensuring that the weak die but also produces new cool inventions to fawn over!!!

    Alien Invasion FTW!!!
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  3. #113
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Vicious alien invaders! Perfect for not only ensuring that the weak die but also produces new cool inventions to fawn over!!!

    Alien Invasion FTW!!!
    Hey, I just watched the X-Files for the third time, you don't have to convince me ^^

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  4. #114
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    Stuff needs to be more like they were before all the peace/feminism/liberal/humanist-bullshit started to be the norm.
    So you are seriously crediting the economic decline of Western civilization on the introduction of peace, femininism, liberalism, and humanism into the culture?

    That's... interesting.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #115
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    So you are seriously crediting the economic decline of Western civilization on the introduction of peace, femininism, liberalism, and humanism into the culture?

    That's... interesting.
    The free market would probably agree with the sentiment...

    Let's face it, as long as you're above the water line you're fine with how deep it is. It's only once you're drowning that you consider how to reduce the tide.

    Mind you the concept does have some merit. There is a certain culture which develops who's members believe that life owes them something. That was a lot less prevalent before all these new found rights came about and it would be logical to ascribe a certain amount of cost to them.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #116
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    If you don't see it, okay. To me the connection between promoting non-violence (which keeps others in check), unrealistic idealism, the false notion that we're all equal... The whole "everyone gets a trophy" thing...
    It's all built on a quagmire, and shit will sink sooner or later if this is allowed to continue much further.
    In my opinion, all great empires/civilizations grow decadent and weak in their final stage before they disappear. People become comfortable and rest on their laurels.
    Weakness is tolerated to a great extent, and aggressive behavior is frowned upon... Such inconvenience!
    You'll see examples of it all throughout history, all the time. Only it's about to happen in a scale never seen before, due to globalization.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  7. #117
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Jesus is the Anti-Marxist!

  8. #118
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    If you don't see it, okay. To me the connection between promoting non-violence (which keeps others in check), unrealistic idealism, the false notion that we're all equal... The whole "everyone gets a trophy" thing...
    It's all built on a quagmire, and shit will sink sooner or later if this is allowed to continue much further.
    In my opinion, all great empires/civilizations grow decadent and weak in their final stage before they disappear. People become comfortable and rest on their laurels.
    Weakness is tolerated to a great extent, and aggressive behavior is frowned upon... Such inconvenience!
    You'll see examples of it all throughout history, all the time. Only it's about to happen in a scale never seen before, due to globalization.
    Not sure I'm ready to put the sandwich board on just yet.

    I'd reckon we've been like this for a while and will continue to do so because at the end of the day we look after our own so although we are a mercenary and decadent society we're also well informed. We're not likely to collapse inwards unless that is the best idea. Sure China is a concern but them becoming the richest nation in the world does not mean that they get to rule... if that were true then I'd be American right now... well actually I'd be dead but that's a matter of principle...
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  9. #119
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    If you don't see it, okay.
    I didn't say whether I saw it or not.
    I just wanted clarification, to make sure I understood that that was truly your case.

    To me the connection between promoting non-violence (which keeps others in check), unrealistic idealism, the false notion that we're all equal... The whole "everyone gets a trophy" thing...
    It's all built on a quagmire, and shit will sink sooner or later if this is allowed to continue much further.
    In my opinion, all great empires/civilizations grow decadent and weak in their final stage before they disappear. People become comfortable and rest on their laurels.
    Weakness is tolerated to a great extent, and aggressive behavior is frowned upon... Such inconvenience!
    You'll see examples of it all throughout history, all the time. Only it's about to happen in a scale never seen before, due to globalization.
    I guess what confuses me is that you seem to focus on all the potential negatives of the things you've described while ignoring any and all of the positives, while seeming to then do the exact opposite for war, patriarchy, conservatism, and ... well, I don't know what the positive opposite of humanism is.

    I just see them as two different frameworks by which to approach the world, and they each have pro's and con's, and the only reason things swung into the direction of the liberalism you seem to blame for all these ills was due to the excesses of the viewpoint you apparently respect. (Let's face it, the old system was fucked up too.) If the prior system was doing its job adequately for all members of the society, then the shift you are complaining about would have never occurred. It's all self-correcting, and is still in the process of stabilizing, so likely the liberal end of things is still ironing out the kinks and needs some balancing itself.

    To me, that's a fairly balanced, detached perspective seeing the merits of both frameworks, while your support of one of them and villianization of the other seems simply to be out of personal alignment/preference. Maybe you're okay with that, though.

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    The free market would probably agree with the sentiment...

    Let's face it, as long as you're above the water line you're fine with how deep it is. It's only once you're drowning that you consider how to reduce the tide.

    Mind you the concept does have some merit. There is a certain culture which develops who's members believe that life owes them something. That was a lot less prevalent before all these new found rights came about and it would be logical to ascribe a certain amount of cost to them.
    Oh, I'm capable of seeing some merit on both ends. It's more a matter of balance, I would think. Unfortunately, we don't get balance in the micromoment, because one power or another is always taking charge and thus it's vascillating; hopefully it all just averages out in terms of cumulative effect.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #120
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    If you don't see it, okay. To me the connection between promoting non-violence (which keeps others in check), unrealistic idealism, the false notion that we're all equal... The whole "everyone gets a trophy" thing...
    It's all built on a quagmire, and shit will sink sooner or later if this is allowed to continue much further.
    In my opinion, all great empires/civilizations grow decadent and weak in their final stage before they disappear. People become comfortable and rest on their laurels.
    Weakness is tolerated to a great extent, and aggressive behavior is frowned upon... Such inconvenience!
    You'll see examples of it all throughout history, all the time. Only it's about to happen in a scale never seen before, due to globalization.
    Do your boxer shorts have little gladiators embossed on them?

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