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Thread: Bin Laden dead

  1. #81
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    There are some people in the world who don't give you a choice between being their enemy or being their victim. You will not rise above it.

  2. #82
    Senior Member Stigmata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ignite View Post
    And this is what makes all the difference between "us" and "them".

    How the eff do you equate our celebrating to theirs???
    Objectively speaking, the only real difference is perspective. Both sides view themselves and their actions in a heroic sense.

  3. #83
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    I see your argument and respond: Eh, fuck that guy.

    Seriously.
    lol

  4. #84
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Barbaric to whom? To him? To our innate sense of humanity?

    Imo, the only barbarism to be concerned with in cases like this is denying a victim closure or recompense. In this case, I don't think anyone cares to actually to speak to someone like him or get anything from him, but if they did, I suppose that'd be an injustice to deny them the opportunity. Otherwise, I don't know how it's anyone's responsibility to care that much for someone who doesn't even care about himself. By that I mean, he already drew clear lines between his own goals and a general sense of humanity. He set the course to be that divisive, and no matter what you express, you will not get through to people like this unfortunately. He's not even that honorable by the average murderer's standards, killing random civilizians as a goal in itself (there's plenty of people like him too, so I'm not villifying him as some unique kind of monster or something). I think it's silly to make up for people like this and try to meet him more than halfway, to pick up the slack, and show just how humane you are in comparison, upholding the most wonderful ideals. In all of that idealism, you forget about the kind of body count he's proud to have racked up.

    It is ideal to bend over backwards and reach out and champion more than mere "tit for tat" expressions of justice, but it is not just to not recognize an enemy for what he is.. and not make some room for ridding everyone of the problem.

    edit: p.s. not really ranting at you specifically.. just ranting
    Hah, all I am saying is that there isn't really a way to say justice is "civilized" (as he puts it.) You can call one act barbaric, and you can call that same act, just as easily, civilized.

    Heck, and I would agree with you, good riddance.

  5. #85
    Senior Member Stigmata's Avatar
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    I just don't see either what we've gained from this or what this changes. Have we regained our pre-9/11 sense of security as a nation now that he's dead? Temporarily perhaps, but not necessarily. The threat of terrorism is still very much a realistic possibility. Have we regained any of our "freedoms" we lost as a result of this decade long war on terror? Nope. Will we? Probably not. Is the war even over globally? Not really.

    Now that we've finally extracted our revenge, all the while running our economy in the ground to do so, what happens now? Do the victims of 9/11 return? Unfortunately no.
    We haven't gained anything of actual substance, other than instilling another fleeting sense of national pride and accomplishment.

  6. #86
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stigmata View Post
    Objectively speaking, the only real difference is perspective. Both sides view themselves and their actions in a heroic sense.
    You know, I don't like looking at it from that perspective though, because this life is simply not that "objective". The two sides, "us and them", are simply not on an even plane (ethically speaking).

  7. #87
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stigmata View Post
    I just don't see either what we've gained from this or what this changes. Have we regained our pre-9/11 sense of security as a nation now that he's dead? Temporarily perhaps, but not necessarily. The threat of terrorism is still very much a realistic possibility. Have we regained any of our "freedoms" we lost as a result of this decade long war on terror? Nope. Will we? Probably not. Is the war even over globally? Not really.

    Now that we've finally extracted our revenge, all the while running our economy in the ground to do so, what happens now? Do the victims of 9/11 return? Unfortunately no.
    We haven't gained anything of actual substance, other than another fleeting sense of nationalism and accomplishment.
    As I said a few pages back... rebuild America because it needs much of it.

    Terrorism is an idea. It isn't like a nation or a person. Something at home could easily be classified as homegrown terrorism as much as terrorism across seas.

  8. #88
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stigmata View Post
    I just don't see either what we've gained from this or what this changes. Have we regained our pre-9/11 sense of security as a nation now that he's dead? Temporarily perhaps, but not necessarily. The threat of terrorism is still very much a realistic possibility. Have we regained any of our "freedoms" we lost as a result of this decade long war on terror? Nope. Will we? Probably not. Is the war even over globally? Not really.

    Now that we've finally extracted our revenge, all the while running our economy in the ground to do so, what happens now? Do the victims of 9/11 return? Unfortunately no.
    We haven't gained anything of actual substance, other than another fleeting sense of nationalism and accomplishment.
    Many people think he's now at his final resting place in a fiery inferno. So for that camp, I can understand their happiness. But really, it doesn't change much. It's a simple concept of justice: He did bad, he ran, he was caught.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ignite View Post
    Why Tallulah and not me? I said the same thing, essentially. It's cause I'm a sensor, huh?

    /paranoia
    It's because I didn't read your posts, I just happened to miss it.

    /flakiness

  10. #90
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sciguy90 View Post
    What my point it, and what bothers me, is that people are more concerned with getting revenge rather than (civilized) justice.
    The families and loved ones of the 3000 dead, deserve to have some form of closure. As far as civilized justice is concerned, they've already stated that they will give him an Islamic funeral. Beyond that, civilized justice has been served...cold.

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