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  1. #21
    Oberon
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    I'm something of a Ron Paul fan, but I wish he'd quit running for president. It doesn't help.

  2. #22
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    Yes it did, the 2008 race was pivotal to his message spreading like wildfire.

  3. #23
    FigerPuppet
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    I would appreciate it if actual macroeconomists were to present the pros and cons of both systems: Fiat currency and the gold standard. It is a debate that I feel is mostly one-sided.

    Lark, my son, do not be too harsh on Elfboy. YouTube is full of gold standard propaganda, and people swallow it like the disgruntled unemployed swallow Tea Party rhetoric and a Chinaman swallows rice.

    Dabit deus his quoque finem. Amen.

  4. #24
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    It was either Peguy or Take Five who said that Ron Paul's rise and popularity indicated a generally pretty unsophisticated political discourse in the US....
    It must have been Take Five, cause I don't recall saying that, or connecting Ron Paul to such.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    actually, it's not an oversimplification. when I said every single fiat currency in history, I mean that of over 3,000 fiat currencies in world history that have been documented not a single one survived long term (and all met disasterous ends). even Alan Greenspan himself (the chairman of the federal reserve) claims that the most prosperous growth in the United States occured from after the Civil War to 1913 when we were on a gold standard with no federal reserve.
    Many things, such as the societies themselves, have not survived historically. The question is whether or not fiat money is preferable in the context of the economic environment today. Also, the current Federal Reserve Chairman, Ben Bernanke, published a paper in which he showed that countries who had abandoned their gold standards in the midst of the great depression fared better economically than those who did not. Furthermore, the gold standard has been hypothesized to have perpetuated the downfall which led to the great depression by facilitating the hoarding of gold.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  6. #26
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Vive Ron Paul!
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

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    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  7. #27
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    Many things, such as the societies themselves, have not survived historically. The question is whether or not fiat money is preferable in the context of the economic environment today. Also, the current Federal Reserve Chairman, Ben Bernanke, published a paper in which he showed that countries who had abandoned their gold standards in the midst of the great depression fared better economically than those who did not. Furthermore, the gold standard has been hypothesized to have perpetuated the downfall which led to the great depression by facilitating the hoarding of gold.
    Monetarists need to understand that the money supply is not the only variable that determines whether or not we have inflation or deflation. The velocity of money is also a factor. When you have a gold-backed currency, you give up any possibility of controlling inflation or deflation. This is not necessarily a bad idea since governments haven't shown themselves to be particularly competent at manipulating the money supply, but making the dollar convertible to gold is not our only option.

    In my opinion, the best solution is not to have a gold-back currency, but to have competing currencies. That brings about a different set of problems, but I believe those problems are more manageable.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #28
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    In my opinion, the best solution is not to have a gold-back currency, but to have competing currencies. That brings about a different set of problems, but I believe those problems are more manageable.
    I think we can have both.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

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    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  9. #29
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    I think we can have both.
    My point was that people are shooting for the wrong goal. The reason we don't have a gold-backed currency is because the government has a monopoly on currency production. If the government gives up its monopoly we will have gold-backed currencies again.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #30
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    If the government gives up its monopoly we will have gold-backed currencies again.
    Yes, automatically. And it would be a good thing.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

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    E=60% S=55% T=70% P=80%

    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

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