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  1. #31
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    No, it's not a choice. The universe operates in a deterministic fashion. Choice is impossible. We are all products of our environment. Some people's environments are better than others'.
    “Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” - G. K. Chesterton

  2. #32
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    I have no problem with the death penalty, except for the expense and inefficiency of the appeals process.

    Also, I've seen many people bring up the argument that the system isn't always right, as far as guilt is concerned.

    This is a pretty weak argument given that no system is perfect.

    There are always mistakes, cost overruns, collateral damage, innocent death.

    Is a person who staunchly supports the Nike brand, and who purchases their products, responsible for the family in malaysia that starves to death because Nike supports an unfair labor market in the 3rd world?

    Or is the only difference that the death caused is less likely to come to one's attention.

    It's much easier to kill those you can't see, like a WWII pilot bombing Dresden, than it is to kill someone in your foxhole with a knife. Yet the result is the same.

    How can someone who opposes the death penalty on the grounds that innocents may die, support war in any instance?

    I get the feeling that most of those citing the innocent death argument against the death penalty merely do so to make themselves feel better.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    People who have done nothing to warrant their own death end up being killed. This makes the death penalty unique, in that, while a person can be wrongfully accused and released, a dead person can only be exonerated posthumously, and this is unacceptable. As a taxpayer, I cannot allow this injustice. I would be morally crushed if I learned that my contributions resulted in the deliberate killing of a fellow comrade and contributor to this great society.

  4. #34
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    no, that doesn't make him a troll. he's merely expressing an unpopular opinion
    Quote Originally Posted by Perch420 View Post
    Punishment is stupid and doesn't work. Prison is a waste of time and money as well. Do you really think those people that raped that guy could be rehabilitated? Of course not. They're degenerates.
    The more someone veers into repeated use of trigger words like "stupid" and "degenerate," the more their behavior might be identified as trollish. (Same thing, when an extreme POV is maintained without attempts to reconcile it with points brought up in discussion.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #35
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    The more someone veers into repeated use of trigger words like "stupid" and "degenerate," the more their behavior might be identified as trollish. (Same thing, when an extreme POV is maintained without attempts to reconcile it with points brought up in discussion.)
    personally I think that's a rather flawed definition with a postitivity bias
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  6. #36
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I have no problem with the death penalty, except for the expense and inefficiency of the appeals process.

    Also, I've seen many people bring up the argument that the system isn't always right, as far as guilt is concerned.

    This is a pretty weak argument given that no system is perfect.

    There are always mistakes, cost overruns, collateral damage, innocent death.

    Is a person who staunchly supports the Nike brand, and who purchases their products, responsible for the family in malaysia that starves to death because Nike supports an unfair labor market in the 3rd world?

    Or is the only difference that the death caused is less likely to come to one's attention.

    It's much easier to kill those you can't see, like a WWII pilot bombing Dresden, than it is to kill someone in your foxhole with a knife. Yet the result is the same.

    How can someone who opposes the death penalty on the grounds that innocents may die, support war in any instance?

    I get the feeling that most of those citing the innocent death argument against the death penalty merely do so to make themselves feel better.
    Cost-benefit analysis. A person may feel some particular war (you said in any circumstance) is more worthy of the innocent death toll than the over-all impact of maintaining a death penalty over some stretch of years.
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  7. #37
    He who laughs
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    Another thread where my avatar makes so much sense, especially considering the OP. Only thing is, atleast Im leaving it up to an omnipotent entity to do my bidding and not humans.

  8. #38
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    imo, we don't know the realities of death, so it's very bizarre to utilize it as a punishment. also rehabilitation would, in general, be much more helpful to society.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan
    Cost-benefit analysis. A person may feel some particular war (you said in any circumstance) is more worthy of the innocent death toll than the over-all impact of maintaining a death penalty over some stretch of years.
    yeah. war blows, but sometimes it's the only realistic way of preventing worse destruction. i really abhor that line of thought, but i don't know how to practically overcome it.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    I don't think I could support the OP's proposal, but I wouldn't object to the execution of the people who attacked the transgendered person in the McDonalds.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #40
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    I may go for an eye for an eye policy. Do a crime and the punishment may go to equal length but not more. Such is fair in personal perception. I wouldn't mind letting a man who willfully killed an innocent child die. Though if it was in utmost certainty that the man truly regretted the act another punishment may be in replacement for the criminal to adhere to. Though there are far many variables to consider.

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