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  1. #101
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fan.of.Devin View Post
    If their offense would be serious enough to warrant the death penalty, would it not surely be serious enough to warrant life in prison without parole otherwise? I think the answer is an obvious yes.

    So where does the risk come from here?
    Prison escapes? Definitely no statistical basis there.
    Something like 6,000 people successfully escape from prison a year (from ALL prisons a year... so an even smaller number than that escape from the high security facilities extremely violent offenders are kept at), which is like, 2,000 more people than are on death row... You do the math.

    Deaths of other inmates? Should we kill members of a certain offender group to prevent them from killing other members of the same offender group?
    why should we pay $1,000s of dollars a year per inmate and keep having to build expensive prison facilities simply because we have some misplaced sense of mercy? another good point of the death penalty is that, frankly cheaper. I'd much rather kill a criminal than have to pay for their useless existance for the rest of their lives. someone who lives a life as a rapist or serial killer no longer deserves any more respect than an animal.
    PS: as mentioned before, I am opposed to the death penalty on the grounds that I don't like the State having that power and the fact that they get it wrong 1,000s of times a year (yikes!) so I would propose turning the inmates into slaves and making them do something productive and economical while serving their time. the fact that we have them just sitting there is one reason our GDP is over 70% dept. americans need to wake the f#$k up and start looking at the economic consequences of their elected politcians' decisions. the majority of americans vote strictly on the basis of party aligment, interest groups, charisma of politicians, emotions and (often misplaced) ethics. I find it extremely childish and irresponsible how many people vote without having any grasp of economics or practical results.
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  2. #102
    Senior Member Fan.of.Devin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    why should we pay $1,000s of dollars a year per inmate and keep having to build expensive prison facilities simply because we have some misplaced sense of mercy?
    Because evidently (unless I was asleep in civics class a lot more often than I remember), that is what prisons exist for.
    We (taxpayers) pay money to keep people deemed a threat to society, isolated from society.

    And we don't "keep having" to build prisons because of violent offenders... Violent crime has pretty consistently decreased for the last two decades.
    The US prison system is currently bloated and overcrowded for exactly one reason; drug offenses, a sizable majority of which are non-violent in nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    another good point of the death penalty is that, frankly cheaper. I'd much rather kill a criminal than have to pay for their useless existance for the rest of their lives.
    Nickles and dimes... Literally completely insignificant.
    A fairly liberal estimate* would give an annual cost (all states combined) of about $175 million...
    Here's a nice tidbit to put things into perspective for you; the federal government, until very recently, spent about $150 million on abstinence only education every year...

    If you've decided the most crucial place to start trimming the tree in the budget is death row (or even if you consider it remotely within the realm of concern at all), then I would suggest that contrary to the vacuous diatribe at the end of your post, the one who needs to wise up to the intricacies and realities of how taxpayer money is spent and wasted would be you. Your post indicates a pretty extreme lack of context on the matter...

    *3500 inmates on death row, and the most expensive prisons (supermax) cost about $50,000 a year to house an inmate.
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  3. #103
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fan.of.Devin View Post
    Because evidently (unless I was asleep in civics class a lot more often than I remember), that is what prisons exist for.
    We (taxpayers) pay money to keep people deemed a threat to society, isolated from society.

    And we don't "keep having" to build prisons because of violent offenders... Violent crime has pretty consistently decreased for the last two decades.
    The US prison system is currently bloated and overcrowded for exactly one reason; drug offenses, a sizable majority of which are non-violent in nature.

    Nickles and dimes... Literally completely insignificant.
    A fairly liberal estimate* would give an annual cost (all states combined) of about $175 million...
    Here's a nice tidbit to put things into perspective for you; the federal government, until very recently, spent about $150 million on abstinence only education every year...

    If you've decided the most crucial place to start trimming the tree in the budget is death row (or even if you consider it remotely within the realm of concern at all), then I would suggest that contrary to the vacuous diatribe at the end of your post, the one who needs to wise up to the intricacies and realities of how taxpayer money is spent and wasted would be you. Your post indicates a pretty extreme lack of context on the matter...

    *3500 inmates on death row, and the most expensive prisons (supermax) cost about $50,000 a year to house an inmate.
    nothing of the sort. while it is on my list of government expenses to trim, there are 1000+ other things I would place higher on the list.
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  4. #104
    Senior Member Fan.of.Devin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    nothing of the sort. while it is on my list of government expenses to trim, there are 1000+ other things I would place higher on the list.
    Then don't put on the charade of caring about saving precious taxpayer funds and admit that you, much like the rest of the pro-death penalty crowd, evidently just want to see some crucifixions.
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  5. #105
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    To be honest the people who discount revenge or vengence so easily cant possibly have experienced much in the way of crime themselves, wanting satisfaction and security are pretty basic human needs.

    The positions of victims or kin is one in which they are unlikely to have been able to anticipate and one which is not a natural or logical consequence of their commission or omission of action by themselves and I would expect the need to be even greater then.

    The rebalancing of the whole legal system in which the needs of the criminals to be provided with a caring environment in which they might possibly develop to a point at which they will abandon criminality I think has taken no account of the needs of the lawful and peaceful, it is they that really matter and are productive and good people.

  6. #106
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fan.of.Devin View Post
    Then don't put on the charade of caring about saving precious taxpayer funds and admit that you, much like the rest of the pro-death penalty crowd, evidently just want to see some crucifixions.
    That's a bit emotive.

    Why dont you admit that you want all expenses paid trips to Disney Land for rapists and child murderers?

  7. #107
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fan.of.Devin View Post
    Then don't put on the charade of caring about saving precious taxpayer funds and admit that you, much like the rest of the pro-death penalty crowd, evidently just want to see some crucifixions.
    posted by moi
    PS: as mentioned before, I am opposed to the death penalty on the grounds that I don't like the State having that power and the fact that they get it wrong 1,000s of times a year
    - I have no need to lie about my views on the death penalty, and they have been stated more than once. please do not make such irrational and unfonded accusations
    - I do care about saving the tax payer money, if you want prove of that, read my posts in similar politics threads
    - that being said, seeing some crucifixions would be entertaining (although I much prefer decapitation) but entertainment is of little consequence to such a serious issue
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  8. #108
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I once read that many especially religious people favor the death penalty in America. Is that true or just fake ?

    I mean I am thinking here of getting rid of two problems in one swift.... nahh forget what I am thinking

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  9. #109
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Once they kill a person who is innocent of the capital crime what can be done then? Who is the killer then? What if a close friend or family member was wrongfully executed?

    My main issue is more about the government/prosecution using their discretion, to execute, to intimidate people waive the right for a jury trial and appeal in order to plea to "life without parole" for crimes where there is reasonable doubt and reversable error at pretrial.

    This is a collateral cost to the tax payer to house all of these people for the rest of their lives.
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  10. #110
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    Once they kill a person who is innocent of the capital crime what can be done then? Who is the killer then? What if a close friend or family member was wrongfully executed?

    My main issue is more about the government/prosecution using their discretion, to execute, to intimidate people waive the right for a jury trial and appeal in order to plea to "life without parole" for crimes where there is reasonable doubt and reversable error at pretrial.

    This is a collateral cost to the tax payer to house all of these people for the rest of their lives.
    EXACTLY! the death penalty has been used throughout European history to oppress and control ordinary citizens and prevent dissent and intellectualism
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