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  1. #11
    Senior Member knight's Avatar
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    cause if it was another women instead of person, it might have been different.

  2. #12
    ThatGirl
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    I am going to agree that was a funny looking seizure.

    I was just typing that, but thought I should not participate in this thread.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Whoa... That was truly heinous. Is s/he having a seizure at 2:50?

    I assume people though everything was under control when the blue-shirted guy appeared, though letting the violence continue was also quite negligent on their part. I imagine, though, that the shock was part of it: the smackdown appeared out of nowhere, which would make me pretty dazed and unsure of what to do... I'm a lousy bystander.

    Hackett's comments, though quite mean, do bring up the whole questions of transgenders and restrooms... What's the LGBT community's response? Me, I see no big problems with letting transgendered men use the ladies' room, but I'm woefully uninformed about the sociology of the whole thing.

  4. #14
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    :facepalm: Oh ThatGirl...

    Some of my facebook friends have posted this in alarm. I can't bring myself to watch the video. They also have a 'local' interest since they're in the DC metro area and B-more already has a bad reputation.

    I heard that in initial news stories there was no mention of the person being transgender, and the the state was looking to prosecute the attackers for *anti-white* hate crime, not gender or sexual orientation.

    Gender identity is not even included in most hate crime legislature, and 'female'/misogynistic crime (which is rampant and retroactively I think most violent crimes against women could fall under such a hate crime statute, which is why it's not there) is not covered so maybe they could go with general "anti-gay" hate crime but the person who was attacked is not necessarily gay. I guess that's kind of another but related discussion.

    I also heard initially that there were multiple employees videotaping the incident on their phones and uploading to YouTube.

    I think youth culture in particular is prone to extreme forms of voyeurism.

    Otherwise I would say that employees in stores, especially in menial jobs like a McDonald's or other retail, are not trained or advised to get involved in disputes. I think your brain is usually barely turned on all the way and you just go on autopilot. At that point, it's really a case of an individuals personal character and personality whether they get involved because they work somewhere. Many businesses don't really seem to give a fuck about the safety of their clients, to be honest or seem to feel responsible for the welfare of people in the store and do everything they can to absolve themselves of potential responsibility upfront. I mean, in a country that's used to apathetic, shitty service and even justifies it, I really doubt someone who says "I just work here" is going to go out on a limb for any one, customer or fellow employees.

    Public bathrooms should just be unisex. I routinely use men's bathrooms because I think it's stupid not to mention sexist that there should be a line of 10 women waiting for 1 bathroom when there is another that's empty. Though I tried once at a hetero club and got ushered out by another male patron. :P It makes a lot more sense logistically to make single bathrooms unisex. I have also noticed more 'family bathrooms' also.

    However for people who hate other people, it doesn't really matter. Transgendered people are easy targets for hate crimes. I'm going to bet that the victim of this crime would have been harassed if not outright attacked just for having the gall to be in public.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Noon's Avatar
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    Unisex bathrooms in place of/addition to gender specific bathrooms, should we have them?
    Unisex or gender neutral restrooms could do something to lessen this (it would be interesting to see how they play out as well), but at least in this case, a large part of it feels like tending to symptoms instead of to the root problem.

    I'm wondering... If someone is seriously identified as a woman, why shouldn't they be able to use the womens' room? Are the ciswomen afraid that a transwoman would be...what, voyeuristic or sexually motivated? That doesn't make a lot of sense. What's stopping them from policing those with alternative orientations too, then? Should everyone be subject to a background check at the restroom door?

    Do these women have a right to be angry? If so, this angry?
    They have a right to feel whatever they want to feel, but it isn't extended to the right to deliberately & viciously attack someone.

    ...Along with that, customers don't have any special right to deny another customer entry to a public restroom.

    All I see is a few power-tripping vigilantes acting out of some misplaced sense of propriety, cowardly ganging up on someone who was defending her right to relieve herself in a public restroom, and a mouth-breathing goon in the background tripping over his own feet for 15 minutes of internet fame. So much stupidity in this entire happening.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noon View Post
    I'm wondering... If someone is seriously identified as a woman, why shouldn't they be able to use the womens' room? Are the ciswomen afraid that a transwoman would be...what, voyeuristic or sexually motivated? That doesn't make a lot of sense. What's stopping them from policing those with alternative orientations too, then? Should everyone be subject to a background check at the restroom door?
    Exactly my counter to those who would disagree with allowing transgenders to using gender specific restrooms.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  7. #17
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    I remember seeing gender neutral restrooms popping up all over the place from 2000-2005 than they disappeared. but it might be that i moved cities, who knows
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  8. #18
    ThatGirl
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    :facepalm: Oh ThatGirl...
    I just realized saying nothing at all may leave too much o the imagination.

    First of all I have helped people through numerous seizures. Usually the muscles contract then spaz out from there. I have never seen somone change their initial position, extend arms, then change back. I could be wrong, but that seemed very odd to me. And it isn't like the guy could have been having a real seizure then faked it to "play dead" of sorts. Seizures leave people dissociated for a little while afterward. In my opinion, the guy was just freaking out. I could be wrong.

    If the guy was just freaking out, I don't blame him. If that were me, I would teach these women that if they want to hit like a man, they get it back from a man. He should have clocked them. They were acting like animals. This was not a surprise reaction or "fear" that most people claim during hate crimes. He may have freaked them out, but the level of over kill, shows these were just fucked up bitches who needed to get laid the fuck out themselves. There was no reason what so ever to keep going back and attacking someone who was not fighting back.

    As far as the guy goes. I feel bad for him, but come on. As unfoprtunate as it is, this is the way some people behave with these types of things. What do you expect to happen if you go out challenging the status quo? Try using a little discretion. If someone asks you to leave the bathroom, just fucking leave. The dangers to transgender individuals is not a new concept. At least wait until you can pass for a woman, before taking a stance against a group of girls in a womens bathroom. I am not saying this is fair, but it is wise. The entire situation could have been avoided, if he simply used the other restroom. Understanding is a two way street. For people to understand you, and for you to understand their positions back. It seems hypoctritical to have become a victim over this.

    In my opinion, the ONLY person who acted human in that video, was the older woman. In my book she is the epitome of badass, and deserves a little trophy.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    I just realized saying nothing at all may leave too much o the imagination.

    .
    Good NTJ! Good, good! *pets*

  10. #20
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    I just realized saying nothing at all may leave too much o the imagination.

    First of all I have helped people through numerous seizures. Usually the muscles contract then spaz out from there. I have never seen somone change their initial position, extend arms, then change back. I could be wrong, but that seemed very odd to me. And it isn't like the guy could have been having a real seizure then faked it to "play dead" of sorts. Seizures leave people dissociated for a little while afterward. In my opinion, the guy was just freaking out. I could be wrong.
    I agree, that was not a real seizure (not that this in any way softens the severity of the offense against her.)

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    If the guy was just freaking out, I don't blame him. If that were me, I would teach these women that if they want to hit like a man, they get it back from a man. He should have clocked them. They were acting like animals. This was not a surprise reaction or "fear" that most people claim during hate crimes. He may have freaked them out, but the level of over kill, shows these were just fucked up bitches who needed to get laid the fuck out themselves. There was no reason what so ever to keep going back and attacking someone who was not fighting back.
    I know, right? She was cowering in the corner FFS!

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    As far as the guy goes. I feel bad for him, but come on. As unfoprtunate as it is, this is the way some people behave with these types of things. What do you expect to happen if you go out challenging the status quo? Try using a little discretion. If someone asks you to leave the bathroom, just fucking leave. The dangers to transgender individuals is not a new concept. At least wait until you can pass for a woman, before taking a stance against a group of girls in a womens bathroom. I am not saying this is fair, but it is wise. The entire situation could have been avoided, if he simply used the other restroom. Understanding is a two way street. For people to understand you, and for you to understand their positions back. It seems hypoctritical to have become a victim over this.
    I disagree here. Even in purely practical terms, I would assume that waltzing into the men's bathroom looking like that would pose a MUCH greater threat than going to the women's side. He can't win; plus, what you've said is a bit like blaming the victim (which is neither a just nor helpful way of looking at the situation.)
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