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View Poll Results: De-fund Planned Parenthood?

Voters
38. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, I support de-funding.

    8 21.05%
  • No, I do not support de-funding.

    30 78.95%
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  1. #91
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Right, and I said that was too anecdotal to be relevant, even if it were proof of illegal activity. This is presumably why he also gave an unimpressed response.
    I wasn't trying to make a significant point with my video. People are looking too deeply into it.

  2. #92
    Klingon Warrior Princess Patches's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    You can't make other people stop having sex. If you could there wouldn't be so many illegal prostitution rings and teen pregnancies already.

    It's nice in theory, but entirely impractical.
    I never said anything of the sort. I simply feel that making a decision based on morals, and then condemning the other side for forcing an issue based on morals is silly.

    I'm in support of the services offered by Planned Parenthood. But I also understand many of the issues the other side has a problem with. You're outraged that there could potentially be the spread of disease and an increase in unwanted pregnancy because the opposition de-funded PP. The opposition is outraged that government money is funding a program which partially participates in activities that they disagree with, all because some teen girls want to engage in recreational sex.

    You've got to understand their perspective. Stand in their shoes. It's like saying, "Hey, this IV drug user caught AIDS and we want the government to pay for his medication". Many people would respond, "Fuck him." If he had ceased his drug use, there would have been no consequence. It's his own fault. "Hey, this 13 year old is having promiscuous sex, we want the government to pay for her birth control." They see it the SAME WAY. If the girl would just stop having unprotected sex, there would be no consequence.

    I am in agreement with you, but not because I discount their morals. I find value and see the logic in much of what they put forth.
    “Everybody has a secret world inside of them. All of the people of the world, I mean everybody. No matter how dull and boring they are on the outside, inside
    them they've all got unimaginable, magnificent, wonderful, stupid, amazing worlds. Not just one world. Hundreds of them. Thousands maybe.” -Neil Gaiman

    ~

  3. #93
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    Adult women go to Planned Parenthood, it's not just teenagers. Also, other people than IV drug users catch AIDS.

    Teaching people abstinence does not work.

    People are going to be people.

    But I agree, the decision to let them suffer and die is moral.

    I don't see much logic in religious beliefs, I really don't. They have some good basic ideas, but to me it looks...incomplete.

    It's like taking half of human knowledge and saying it's full knowledge. Religion was highly necessary at one point I think. I also believe we've passed that point, and now it's just becoming a detriment.

  4. #94
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patches View Post
    I never said anything of the sort. I simply feel that making a decision based on morals, and then condemning the other side for forcing an issue based on morals is silly.

    I'm in support of the services offered by Planned Parenthood. But I also understand many of the issues the other side has a problem with. You're outraged that there could potentially be the spread of disease and an increase in unwanted pregnancy because the opposition de-funded PP. The opposition is outraged that government money is funding a program which partially participates in activities that they disagree with, all because some teen girls want to engage in recreational sex.

    You've got to understand their perspective. Stand in their shoes. It's like saying, "Hey, this IV drug user caught AIDS and we want the government to pay for his medication". Many people would respond, "Fuck him." If he had ceased his drug use, there would have been no consequence. It's his own fault. "Hey, this 13 year old is having promiscuous sex, we want the government to pay for her birth control." They see it the SAME WAY. If the girl would just stop having unprotected sex, there would be no consequence.

    I am in agreement with you, but not because I discount their morals. I find value and see the logic in much of what they put forth.
    /Thread
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  5. #95
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    ^ except, no.

    look at the metaphor - it doesn't play out. not every person in the US is eventually going to grow up and shoot up. on the other hand, almost everyone is going to grow up and have sex. and taking IV drugs also isn't a pressing biological drive tied to the means of keeping our entire species in existence.

    i don't totally disagree with patches, i just think there's a huge loss of realism and perspective surrounding the issue.

    along a parallel line of thought, i would LOVE to not need an army. i hate killing, i hate violence, i hate war. but that's totally unrealistic. in reality, the military protects my ass every day. i am still a proponent of nonviolence and diplomacy, but i'm not going to pretend like i would be better off without the military. i'd probably be dead without the military. similarly - i would love to not need planned parenthood. i hate the idea of young teens having sex, of mistaken pregnancies, of abortion. but that's totally unrealistic too. like beargryllz pointed out - voting to defund it is like voting to drastically increase teen pregnancy and STD rates. i am a proponent of personal responsibility and valuing all human life, but i'm not going to pretend like society would be better off if planned parenthood were defunded.

    basically, the way i see it, is do we side with blind morality and idealism, and in our zeal destroy the very goals we're attempting to achieve (a la bristol palin) - or do we suck it up, accept imperfection, and try to meet reality in the middle - while paying less to support planned parenthood in taxes every year than we probably spend on freaking little debbie snack cakes at the grocery store?

    in the meantime, if these whiny conservatives know so much, then why haven't they come up with a practical, moral alternative to planned parenthood? like marm said, abstinence education don't work. because, quite frankly, it goes against every human instinct in the book. goes against biological drive, goes against exploration and curiosity, goes against physical expression of love, and goes against one's desire to decide what's best for one's own body.

    if someone, regardless of politics, religion, or agenda, comes up with a better solution than PP - one that actually works - i'm all for it, but i've yet to see it. until then, i can't see any advantages to defunding the system we already have.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    ^ except, no.

    look at the metaphor - it doesn't play out. not every person in the US is eventually going to grow up and shoot up. on the other hand, almost everyone is going to grow up and have sex. and taking IV drugs also isn't a pressing biological drive tied to the means of keeping our entire species in existence.

    i don't totally disagree with patches, i just think there's a huge loss of realism and perspective surrounding the issue.

    along a parallel line of thought, i would LOVE to not need an army. i hate killing, i hate violence, i hate war. but that's totally unrealistic. in reality, the military protects my ass every day. i am still a proponent of nonviolence and diplomacy, but i'm not going to pretend like i would be better off without the military. i'd probably be dead without the military.

    similarly - i would love to not need planned parenthood. i hate the idea of young teens having sex, of mistaken pregnancies, of abortion. but that's totally unrealistic too. like beargryllz pointed out - voting to defund it is like voting to drastically increase teen pregnancy and STD rates. i am a proponent of personal responsibility and valuing all human life, but i'm not going to pretend like society would be better off if planned parenthood were defunded.

    basically, the way i see it, is do we side with blind morality and idealism, and in our zeal destroy the very goals we're attempting to achieve (a la bristol palin) - or do we suck it up, accept imperfection, and try to meet reality in the middle - while paying less to support planned parenthood in taxes every year than we probably spend on freaking little debbie snack cakes at the grocery store?

    in the meantime, if these whiny conservatives know so much, then why haven't they come up with a practical, moral alternative to planned parenthood? like marm said, abstinence education don't work. if they come up with something better, i'm all for it, but i've yet to see any progress from their camp.
    Yeah, I read somewhere that Catholic girls are more likely to have abortions because their guilt about sex pushes them into so much denial that they're the least likely to seek contraception until they're already pregnant.

    Same thing about the military, I agree. War is a necessary evil.

    Let's just look at human societies, see what people do, and draw from that, reasonably, that WHY YES! people are going to do this!

    However, Patches is right that the decision to provide Planned Parenthood is a moral issue, which is why libertarians disagree with some government programs though they are not religious.

    Yet, on the other hand, preventative measures seem imminently reasonable to me. Logical. Not just moral.

  7. #97

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    My thoughts on the matter summed up quite succinctly here

    - [YOUTUBE="fkjx-Z0WPs0"]...[/YOUTUBE]

    :shrugs: I don't think men should legislate on a female-only issue (excluding the role of partner whom the women engaged in the act with), anyhow, it's her body, she should do what she wants, and if she's educated, Plan parenthood and the resources that they offer seem to be beneficial, it's better than her having a child when she is not ready (financially or emotionally) ... I don't see what's so difficult to get about that... her body, her choice (when men magically get the ability to have children, then they can legislate on the matter but eh, we've fucked things up for women for countless years, I push it further and say no man votes for about 10 years (including myself), sure the society would improve...

  8. #98
    Klingon Warrior Princess Patches's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_World_As_Will View Post
    :shrugs: I don't think men should legislate on a female-only issue
    The financial implications of action vs inaction impact everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_World_As_Will View Post
    I push it further and say no man votes for about 10 years (including myself), sure the society would improve...
    ........I would leave the country.
    “Everybody has a secret world inside of them. All of the people of the world, I mean everybody. No matter how dull and boring they are on the outside, inside
    them they've all got unimaginable, magnificent, wonderful, stupid, amazing worlds. Not just one world. Hundreds of them. Thousands maybe.” -Neil Gaiman

    ~

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patches View Post
    ........I would leave the country.
    Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with you there.

  10. #100
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    I'm sorry I said religious people were a blight on the face of the earth. That wasn't very nice. I was being an asshole.

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